00:01 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
Are you an aspiring leader who knows you have more to offer but you can't seem to get ahead? Do you frequently feel overwhelmed and under-supported? Listen to the Overcome to Become podcast as we talk about actionable tasks and mindsets that you can apply to begin leading yourself. Hi, I'm Dr Angela Buckley, your host and author of the Strength in Nature Leadership Series and Likeable Leadership Reflection Journals. I'm a mother, consultant, triathlete and coach In Overcome to Become. I share with you the science-backed and experienced proven lessons I've learned in my own leadership journey to beat burnout. Hey, hello everyone.
00:40
Angela Buckley here, and I am here talking with my friend, B Girson, and I am excited to have her on today to talk about mental mindset, and one of the ways that I had originally met her was, maybe 15 years ago, a little bit shy of that, when I was looking to improve my sales acumen and a little more presence and learning a little bit more about just the entrepreneurial journey in general, and so I think I met her at one of the Columbus, Ohio networking events and reached out to try to get some help, and so we've just had contact for these many years and now we're back together talking about some similar things. She continues to talk about mental mindset and sales, and that is why we would love to learn a little bit more from her. So welcome, thank you, barb. Would you love to introduce yourself a little bit more?
01:40 - Barb Girson (Host)
I would. You know. It takes me back memory lane because I think you were one of the first or among the first people that I had an opportunity to work with as a coaching client. Since then, my business has me and I am the owner of Beyond Sales Tactics, so that's one change since we met. Is we really expanded into leadership and executive coaching? I own and operate a small professional skill development firm and focus in the areas of leadership, executive communication, business, career and sales. It's a slice, it's not the whole pie and um, you know I'm thinking back one. One significant, visible change in working with you today, being with you and staying, keeping our friendship, of course, is you've grown your hair long and it looks great not that it didn't before, but times have changed, so there you go.
02:44
I probably had real shorter than two you did and you know what.
02:48 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
Do not, uh, discount the fact that future hair may get short again. Like it might go long, it might go short, that's true it's the person inside right.
02:59 - Barb Girson (Host)
That's, that's our mindset. That kind of drives our outward behavior, not our hair yep, yeah, thankfully so.
03:06 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
Most days I'm gonna not lie.
03:08 - Barb Girson (Host)
It is tied back and out of my face so I can get to it, but it looks nice on camera well, I might as well be transparent and say I had a headband on at the start and gave you a choice and you know girls will be girls. You said no headband, so here we are.
03:22 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
I think you look great, so I love your hair and well, whatever. In general, I love you so beautiful inside, beautiful out, and so we're we're working on it, right, yeah, new day.
03:35 - Barb Girson (Host)
I love that. Thank you, and it's mutual.
03:38 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
Thank you. So, Barb, can you tell us a little bit about your journey, Like, how did you come to where you are and finding really the peaceful aura that you not only offer to the world in your being, but also that you're helping people, coach, right? So, talking about again the clientele and the people that I'm trying to reach my audience, we're talking about holy cow. The day is overwhelming. We have children, we have personalized, we have our work, we have so much we have to get done. It is very easy to get overwhelmed and it just feels like, no matter what, the world keeps coming at us, right? And how do we get through some of that? How does mental mindset, how do some of the things that you are offering help us get through some of that anxiety, calm us down and really put out that, that positive and calm energy that we're looking to achieve?
04:34 - Barb Girson (Host)
Well, you know, first of all, it's a lifelong journey. It is, and any given moment I can, I can tell you, you know, scientifically, going into leveraging my study in neuroscience light, not as a scientist but understanding enough to figure out human behavior. That you know, we can know it. But to live it it's a whole other thing and it is a lifelong practice. So I'll start out by taking you back.
05:00
I'm a teacher by trade. I taught high school for about a year and a half right out of college and I always had this fascination. What drove me to teaching is I had a fascination. I looked around and I thought most adults really look miserable and a lot of times it's stress at work, stress at home, guilt here, guilt there. And so my fascination came how do we connect with the inverse relationship? Happy at home means happier at work and happier at work means happier at home. And so, going into teaching, specifically career education, vocational education, teaching practical skills like job search and career exploration and job search strategy and interviewing and resume prep, I got my students a job in their senior year and helped them co-op and make sure that their employers were happy with them, and I was fascinated by the topic and really passionate about how practical those skills are, and today I still do career coaching in those arenas. However, I realized very early on that I would rather work with adults than teenagers. Now, how old is your family there? 16.
06:20 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
And we did his first resume last year, got his first summer job that he loved and he can't wait to go back.
06:28 - Barb Girson (Host)
That's awesome. So, having a 16-year-old and seeing the highs and lows of teenagers, you may appreciate that I decided or may not that I wanted to work with adults and my first job right outside of teaching was in sales. And, angela, you wouldn't have bet a quarter that I would last in the business. If you knew me then. I was terrible at first and the one aspect that helped me grow was that I'm a very good learner. I'm a lifelong learner and this has carried me through my whole career. So I followed around everyone who was successful and initially started picking up pointers from them and maybe emulating and to be just like them and taking advantage of conferences and books and reading, and eventually, within three short years, I placed number two in the nation in a ranked sales force out of 80,000 reps and that was really quite an achievement. And from that I had an opportunity to invest in a pick and pack warehouse. My husband joined me in the business and we did that for 11 years and I'm going to try to fast forward the chapters pretty quickly here and I loved owning and operating a business, but the way the business grew is. I would take care of focusing on developing the leaders and help them be effective in building strong teams and for them to develop leadership and develop their confidence and help them deal with that just right amount of well a whelm, because if, if they got overwhelmed, it would stop them in their tracks in their career, and that that was fantastic. My husband focused on the back end. We had about 20 employees. We built that to a multi-million dollar business and all was going along swimmingly and up and until at a very big picture level. The company decided that they could, instead of having 350 geographically based warehouse and distribution centers where we bought the product from the company and distributed it based on sales, what was sold, that they could increase efficiency and increase profitability if they went to three centralized warehousing with automation instead of pick-and-pack. So that model of business was being phased out. My husband went back to teaching.
08:58
I spent a decade in corporate America Some really great business experience. I worked for some startups Most of those didn't work out, but I learned what does and I also had some pretty significant corporate, national and even international interactions and global responsibility. I was director of field sales in North America for a company. I was national sales director and I actually was a vice president, general manager. So, with all of that fantastic experience, that brings us up to about 2008 when, somewhere in there, we met not too from there, I launched my own professional skill development company, always wanting, and what led me to do that is I was laid off. So, as we flash forward to today's times, layoffs are pretty rampant in certain industries. I know for Stan how that was initially so devastating and then launched this business that is still vibrant today.
10:06 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
I think, 2008, we learned a lot. So, speaking again to overwhelm and some of the anxiety that people experience, of course, with being laid off, 2008, I think, was the big change for our country to say you can be laid off and you're not a bad person, you're not an underperformer, like the business simply shifted our division. I was also in the 2000. I did not hit. I didn't get the 2001, I got the 2001, 2002. That's when things started crashing for my world and they laid off multiple divisions in one morning. Boom. There was one part of the division they logged in and it was on the intranet. This division is being ended today.
10:53 - Barb Girson (Host)
Oh, how disheartening.
10:54 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
The vice president found out when she logged in with everybody else right of the entire division. So that is not bad people. That is changing priorities, shifting, that's management, and I think a lot of people really had to come to terms with the fact, because we do define ourselves frequently as the caretaker of our families, and the job is what we do to provide for our families. Like that's food on the table, that's roof over your head, and whether you're single, whether you're in a couple, whether you're a caretaker for other people, that's still a security thing and it is. While you shouldn't define yourself as your job, defining yourself as a successful person that cares for those around you is a real thing, and so I think I don't think who.
11:51 - Barb Girson (Host)
No matter who it happens to, I think, and not no matter how much the circumstances are you're, you're in a pool of people that may be impacted, or perhaps it's your job individually, it still does it is. It can be destabilizing emotionally, identity wise, and certainly it has financial impacts. So you know it takes time to figure out what's next.
12:18 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
It does, it does and how to get through that. The people that I think are most successful getting through that are successful in understanding that the straightest way through a storm is straight through quickest way, right and again mental mindset like take a day, acknowledge the shock. A little bit of grief, yeah, absolutely, but then get back up and get going right those whose hustle comes. It's not a, it's not a waiting game, right?
12:51 - Barb Girson (Host)
and, as they're saying that, I'm really listening carefully. So it is important to get back up and it is important to recognize, uh, something that probably in in the more recent times I've finally put this piece in you start out saying how do you get this peaceful calm about you? It's been a long time working, but, however, I can now actually listen to my needs better and give myself that self-compassion and that kindness and space. You know, even sitting with these uncomfortable emotions where I think my younger self was powering through them at all cost right, right.
13:36 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
Yeah, I find sleep um very healing. Yeah, it is I before. I'm gonna respond to something crazy like, and crazy things happen. I'm like tomorrow, and I am intentionally saying tomorrow yeah because it helps me put it together a little bit.
13:59
Am I really that upset about it? Is this something to be that upset about? Am I just hangry? I get hungry? Right, I get, I am I get hangry. I have to completely admit, like I need to know did I drink enough water? Did I have an extra cup of coffee and I should have had water? Do I need to have more food? And if I get behind, even it takes me a second to regulate um with with the food, to bring everything back down and, honestly, a nap goes a long way to like getting it all back in balance a nap goes a long way.
14:37 - Barb Girson (Host)
And, um, I can just hear your. I know you're an athlete, you're accomplished in your own right, so I did want to acknowledge that. And a lot of what athletes master from what I know is recognizing your own self needs and how to take care of your body as your operating system and move forward. And again, those were pieces I've just put together. In the last five, seven years, my days when I was a corporate employee, sitting on a senior management team, with the amount of pressure, I had an intellectual understanding of how important sleep and nutrition and exercise was, but I never quite put it together like I have. But I never quite put it together like I have.
15:25
And what changed for me is I got a personal trainer and I also worked with a coach to stop those limiting beliefs that I couldn't quite see for myself, and it's made a huge difference. And so, on my daily checklist checklist, I try to add getting out in the daylight, making sure that I walk every day, that, um, a couple, you know what, what are my weekly routines that will support the kind of being I want to show up as, and I'm really proud to say that, that transformation, although I still need to be diligent. I think I could easily get back to now what seems like maybe a lazy yourself, or let myself off the hook, not that I was ever quote unquote lazy. I just didn't prioritize myself on the list, myself on the list. So if you're listening out there and your self-care or you're prioritizing yourself is not helping you to show up in the best state possible, to be energetic and resilient, then I encourage you to get help with that.
16:39 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
I don't see it as lazy, I see it as grace, like grace to yourself, the emotional, mental elements and the spiritual elements associated with finding that happy balance.
17:11 - Barb Girson (Host)
You're so right and, just as we said, I try to get out every day and get sunshine. Do you see the big ray of sunshine that came in? It is wonderful. I don't know how to my blinds broke is that.
17:28 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
So it's the first day that we have had sun in what like 35 days, I feel. And I ran around the house and I opened every single blind and I found that my son managed to break his yeah, only one of his would go up and I don't even know how that happened. So we're going to have to have a little conversation, but the house is streaming full of sunlight today. I am so happy. I think this morning yesterday morning was the first time, I feel, that we've seen real sunlight in almost the entire month.
18:01 - Barb Girson (Host)
Well, I, like I said, my blindss are broken so I can't even stop the sun coming. Can you see me? Okay, I can see you just we'll keep going, okay, we'll keep going, it's artistic it's a
18:14
beautiful artistic background yeah and I'm I'm going to whoops okay, so yeah. So we're talking about that overwhelm that hits us in everyday life and what we can do, and I think it's first to if we could just level set maybe how we're being overcome by whatever is going on, inundated like life is coming at us fast and boy in. With my coaching clients I hear this frequently, especially my women executives who are working in corporate America. They feel I hear probably daily America. They feel I hear probably daily somebody who is being overburdened by their situation, their emotions and whatever stimulus has come. What their boss needs, what their team needs, what their customers need, and so overwhelm is that sense of all these stressors are coming at you and, and particularly women, they go home and, like you said, then they have the probably a heavy amount on their plate of what needs to happen at home.
19:38
And it can make us feel like there's pressure or anxiety or maybe we can't even manage this situation. So all of that creates a feeling, at little degrees, of overwhelm all the way to big degrees where some intervention or something has to change.
19:58 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
Right. So I do have a PhD in organizational development and so that includes the coaching and the leadership. But I do stop short. I am not a psychologist. I am not a trained psychologist and I do screen when I'm looking at clients and working with clients or selecting who I'm going to work with. If I think we're full on into depression or something else, I recommend a professional other than myself. So I need to put that out there. Understanding where a coach is helpful and where truly medical intervention is helpful is really critical to being successful and ethical as a coach, right?
20:46 - Barb Girson (Host)
absolutely and and you know where I draw the line in and don't hesitate to make recommendations to a therapist, a psychologist or professional counselor is if it's interfering with somebody's day-to-day like you said. If it's, if it's classifying in, potentially already at burnout or depression, then we want either a medical doctor or a therapist to work with them. And at the same time, I have worked with people that are seeing a therapist and they'll couple a coach along with the journey and I absolutely want them to know tell your other medical or healthcare professionals that you're working with a coach. And where we really look at as coaches I'm sure you'll agree, angela is we take the person, we meet them where we're at. We're not diagnosing backwards. Where did this stem from?
21:41 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
we're looking forward and helping them with behavioral or perceptual interventions or talking through what's going to take them closer to their preferred future right habit development, and so coaching is a lot of about the behaviors and the habit development, and I like to talk about muscle memory. Right, we talk about this when we play piano. We talk about this when we're learning things, so that some of these good behaviors become habitual and they become second nature. I'm going to walk in the door and always hang up my keys right here, no matter what I will say. My child does have ADHD and he has learned that the keys he's not old enough to drive yet, so he's also not allowed to use them, but they hang on.
22:30 - Barb Girson (Host)
That is where they go.
22:31 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
That is where they go and mom and dad need to know where the keys are, because you know the keys don't belong in his pocket yet. But it matters, because other things get lost very quickly frequently if they're not important. But creating that habit, creating that muscle memory, man, does that make the morning so much easier, because you know exactly where to go, instead of running around because the keys are in yesterday's blue jeans yeah.
22:59 - Barb Girson (Host)
So coaching can go in my arena, can go into habits. It also can help look at things such as what's going on in the internal experience, like what are the limiting beliefs around this that drain energy or help, or what are the stories that we're telling ourselves that maybe cause those feelings of overwhelm. It can be looking at what's the gap between where you're at and where you want to go, and how are you going to get there.
23:30 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
Right when we're coaching and this isn't specific to the mindset but my first question is always what does success look like to you?
23:39
Yeah, right, what is your definition? Because if it's something like I won the game, this is a finite goal and life is not finite, life is infinite. So do we want to have some successes that are punctuated by wins? Sure, why not? But when we're talking about more of this type of coaching, of overcoming the overwhelm, I'm personally talking more about finding that even keel and understanding that if you do have a push, then you also need to have a retraction, like an ebb and a flow in your energy, because the goal is to remain healthy and set healthy boundaries. We talk a lot about boundaries and imaging what boundaries look like in a positive way, not in a I got cut off way, and that's that's really important to understanding what overwhelm is, and I would say anyone that has children, anyone that has, is working full time and then coming home in the evening you still have a whole nother job in front of you and it is exhausting.
24:51 - Barb Girson (Host)
And those boundaries. No doubt, and again zeroing in on particularly women who have work and and home life, professional home life or professional and personal life, however they delineate oftentimes we're hearing that overwhelm comes because of their desire to really do a great job to please others, and they might not have the skills of how to say no or how to set appropriate boundaries or even feel confident enough that the relationship will be stable even when you fence off or renegotiate what has to happen. Yes, so a lot of that ties in.
25:37 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
Yep, did you know that, as of 2024, overwhelm is an occupational hazard, according to the World Health Organization?
25:47 - Barb Girson (Host)
Wow, that's good to know.
25:48 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
They wrote that. They wrote that paperwork last year and it came into effect January 1st of this year. So one of the tools that I offer is truly the occupational health or assessment self-assessment for burnout. I saw it. I read the papers, of course, and, as a mom who is doing quite a few things right, I feel that it's important to understand that overwhelm can be understood in the workplace but, honestly, it's at home as well.
26:26
I think there's a huge burden when you are raising children, raising children alone, raising children even in a family, and you may not have the support that you need, or multiple children, and there's just a lot. Someone pointed out the other day that all of the find peace gurus never had children. Okay, they're like Deepak Chopra doesn't have kids, eckhart Tolle doesn't have kids, buddha never had kids. I see a pattern here. That's true. There's a lot of things out of control, out of your control, so you have to figure out your response, and it's a new out of control every morning. Right, yes, and are growing and developing yeah, a new human that matters.
27:19 - Barb Girson (Host)
You feel like your heart is outside your body, trying to get this person to adulthood and then and um, yeah, that creates a new sense, could be a new sense about a control. That's why I think parents need other parents as support people I say it, I mean you hear it.
27:41 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
It's not just me, but I live it. You need a village.
27:45 - Barb Girson (Host)
I was thinking of that. It takes a village.
27:49 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
I'm not going to lie. So and honestly, that's one of the things we talk about also in Overcome the Overwhelm is community building and before you set some of these boundaries, you also need to make sure that you have community that's going to help you support those boundaries. So, especially if you have one that is, uh, going to be a new boundary that people aren't understanding, you need to have someone else that's sort of behind you, helping you understand that you're going to go through a difficult time because it's not enough to say here's my boundary, I'm going to bed at 8 pm because I have to get up at four. Instead, you need a community that's going to say I respect that you're going to bed so we'll all brush our teeth and read a book, so that we're in bed and you don't have to worry about us Right, like, where is that? Or you have another adult that's helping, or you need support in order to hold boundaries, and a boundary isn't real unless you are enforcing it in some way.
28:57 - Barb Girson (Host)
A hundred percent, and that's such a good example about. You can just decide, okay, I'm going to do this, and then how do you line up the resources to help you? Help your words have teeth and meaning. I can give an example parallel to that in the corporate world from one of the people I was coaching and in this situation it was a culture where meetings typically ran over. New expectations were handed on top of previous expectations regularly and deadlines were shifting and they weren't shifting to give more time to get things done. It was another thing to do.
29:39
And when I met this coaching client, and when I met this coaching client and I'm, you know, disguising the details of the situation so that I protect confidentiality, but yet the essence was you know what we did. This from Stephen Covey circle of concern and what, what concerns you, and then does it fit in the ring, the outer ring, or things that you can't control, or outside the ring, and then, as you move in a circle of things you can influence, in the center of the things you can control. We really looked at that, this person. It was quite a successful story over the coaching engagement. They ended up leading an initiative where the team that was recipient to these endless deadlines, long meetings, back-to-back pressure was able to come up with a charter of their recommended ways of working, to present to leadership, and there was give and take, what they weren't hostage demand, so to speak.
30:47
Either do it or else it was. Here's a place let's have a dialogue about this and they were able to make fundamental shifts to improve the culture and it. It enhanced retention, it made it a better place to work. It wasn't instantaneous and were there things that still were under the old way of? Here's another immediate task that we have to get done, yes, but it greatly improved. Wow, I feel like the sun is you are like sunshine right now.
31:21
It's following along our topic and when it's proving of your story. Yeah, the spiritual part of this really resonates. I get a big ray of sunshine you did that was amazing. If it gets dark and cloudy we'll have to curtail and come back another day, but it really was a success. It was an example that when we think we have no power to accept the situation, we really are giving away our power.
31:53 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
That is a true. That's a great story. Thank you for sharing that. It reminds me of a time I was in an organization and honestly it was an organization that culturally should have had meetings be starting punctually and ending punctually, but we just were. We were just getting out of again lots of new business, new people trying to figure out how you're going to juggle all the things. And I was driving in and I called the CEO and I said this has got to stop, like our days are going on and people are missing meetings and because they were late, they'd walk in late and they'd say, hey, can you catch me up? And it would interrupt the meeting and the meetings would go longer.
32:35 - Barb Girson (Host)
And.
32:36 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
I said I have a suggestion. We're going to charge people. We're going to have little swear cans, basically if you're late, and it was a quarter for the hourly and the dollar for the management, for salary, management, or maybe I think hourly weren't charged but our salary and then management was a dollar or something. And he just starts laughing and he's like we'll donate it to the children. So we do a lot of donations with the Boys and Girls Club.
33:04
So we got these cans and he's like we're gonna make a game of it, we're gonna have fun, and it really only took, I'll say, a month to like really get the behavior. And the first there was some resistance in the first day or two and after a while people sort of was like, ah, this kind of works. And then I got a text message hey, he's on the like he was supposed to be somewhere that I was leading a big event, right. And I get a text message oh, he's running Cause he knows that he's going to be late and he doesn't want to put another dollar in the jar this week. So, um, like, I think the fun of it is we set some boundaries, it.
33:48
It was not a lot of fun at the first effort, right, like there was some changes and some pushback, but at the end people had fun, people donated, people were making an effort and it's not like we were never late. Of course, we were like it's business there are shifting priorities all the time but you owned it and you didn't interrupt coming in and it really it helped overall. And it was such a simple little thing and the children got what $50 or something. I mean we just added it to our normal Christmas fund or something and then after that, like it really trickled off because we had effectively established a new behavior and a new expectation and we communicated it in a way that was really helpful.
34:35 - Barb Girson (Host)
Fun and proactive, and I've heard of that being done. However, you had such a better noble cause with the money. I think the team that did it used it to treat everyone to a happy hour after they were done.
34:50 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
I'm not even going to lie Like I had no clue what I was going to do with the money. I just was like that. That was his idea. So, like kudos to him, I was trying to figure out how to your point. Like there was a frustration level and there were multiple people that were frustrated and, honestly, like I get fines again. I had a young child. If I don't pick him up by 6 PM, there's a fine at the daycare. A lot of people don't know that and if you're more, if you're late more than three times, they will kick you out. And now what do you do?
35:22
Yeah so like I was, like you don't understand. We must be done with meetings by 530. This is not, that's not negotiable.
35:28 - Barb Girson (Host)
Right.
35:28 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
Yeah, and what a great thing. There's no reason not to be able to get your day done by 530 if you're starting at seven.
35:36 - Barb Girson (Host)
What a perfect procedure to also support a better work life balance, or blend, because there is an end to a work day and it is respected, so I love that I have a visitor hi there. How are you?
35:53 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
good you're, you're alive. This is barb. We're talking about mindset and um. She is a sales consultant and a mindset coach and leadership help and we are recording a podcast.
36:08 - Barb Girson (Host)
So, and now you're on it and famous.
36:12 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
So can you be quiet for just a little bit if you wouldn't mind? Yep, Thank you. Happy Friday. Oh sorry, you just get home.
36:22 - Barb Girson (Host)
Well, all of that is well and good when we have the mindfulness to think about what's happening and then to make some choices. And then there's another phenomenon that creates overwhelm, and that is Daniel Goleman called it the amygdala hijack. I don't think I could talk about that overwhelm without addressing that. You know, a common stress response can lead to us going into amygdala hijack. So, with that, what do you think of us going there? Yes, please do?
36:59 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
I'm waiting for you.
37:01 - Barb Girson (Host)
So you know, at any given moment our brain is scanning the environment and the situation and it's there really for one main purpose to protect us. And it's deciding will this situation bring me pain or pleasure, threat or reward? If it senses that that people, person, situation, event could possibly bring us threat or pain, it has the potential to go into literally a stress response that can feel overwhelming and the amygdala, the limbic part of our brain, fires off, and Daniel Goleman coined that the amygdala hijack. So we'll notice we're having one if we feel a response to a situation is big and overwhelming, of course that hangry could play into it. Are we responding out of measure to the stimulus? Maybe somebody says something to you and we snap at them. Typically, if we respond right, then when our body is producing stress chemicals adrenaline, cortisol a little bit of those chemicals can get us going Too much, literally can derail us and we're likely to respond in a way that we'll regret.
38:27
And I like in our brain to think about that, especially the amygdala. It's similar to as if we had an internal smoke alarm or smoke detector and it goes off. And when it goes off we respond with a survival mechanism and we literally lock down. Access to our prefrontal cortex, our higher level brain, where rational thinking, innovation, creativity and partnership reside, and usually in those feelings of overwhelm, in those stressful situations, that's exactly what we need to access. It's what's the rational choice here. What do we need to do? And so I think it's really important that we one I invite you and our listeners to think of a situation where it potentially feels overwhelming and maybe you have reacted in a bigger way. Maybe you can even identify that amygdala hijack. Does anything come to mind for you on that, angela?
39:31 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
um, yes, so now that I have a teenager who is learning how to express emotions, right, yes, um, had a super rough day, super exhausted, walking the door and he hadn't, like, cleaned the kitchen counter Honestly it wasn't horrible, but like I totally went off on the poor guy is super not fair. But this is not what a parent should do, right? But I did. And he's like why are you so angry? And I'm like, yes, that is, that is a good question. And I was exhausted and apologize and back down, right, but it took a day to. I was so exhausted that the trigger of I've asked you, I've asked you, I've asked you didn't get done. It's not an appropriate response.
40:28 - Barb Girson (Host)
It's not an appropriate response and so these things do happen from time to time. They do and it's human and and you know they're often learned behaviors and we as humans have a typically will respond to a perceived threat or danger in fight, flight, flight, freeze or appease, and maybe our listeners have heard of that. So if you could think about your situation and it seems like you went into a pretty quick fight, the tone was a little bit elevated it's a bigger reaction that's needed and it is a survival mechanism which was very, very useful. See, the sun's coming bright in on me now you are blinded out right now I am, and it's because I guess what I'm saying is helpful here.
41:12
It is important, yep, but it you know, we, we respond in this way because we are it like if we were in a movie theater and someone yells fire. We would want our amygdala hijack to shut down the rational part of our brain when we had to think about it and we would want to run. Here goes the days we were spending more time in movie theaters with that example. But. But you know, today, oftentimes in our stressful, uncertain, some of the chaos around us, we are firing off and having big emotional responses, bigger than we need to, especially when we feel overwhelmed. Our resources are lower and it's typical to go into that, and so what we want to do is learn to identify when it's happening us to, to feel those chemicals.
42:08
And I've actually been mindful enough to feel those chemicals and like be wanting to pound that email and have it erupt across the computer. To get my point across, sometimes I've even sent it. I could see what was happening, but but it just perceived in my mind that it would be so relieving to send that email. And usually then you're groveling in regret later because it's an overreaction, as your example too. So what do you do in those situations? What's your go-to way of calming yourself down?
42:45 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
oh well, I'm an athlete so I go work out drinking water. Honestly, like I know so many people talk about, oh, I need to have a drink and calm down. That is not an effective way for me. Um, water goes a long way to like getting myself back into a regulated state. I walk the dog. If it's just a calm day, lifting weights is a great way.
43:12
I also play instruments, so sometimes, using the instrument, there's a lot of breathing.
43:18
I think maybe people don't realize all the time when you are from the outside looking in, there's a lot of focus on regulated breathing and regulated metrics literally metrics right In my head one, two, three, four, one two, three, four and by it forces you to breathe and calm down and put the emotions a little bit to the side.
43:43
And there's still a physical element and, of course, the spiritual element associated with making music and expressing your emotions in a healthy manner. So those are some of the things that I find myself doing frequently and again, like I said, sleep is a is a powerful tool because I can also feel, like I can tell when there is an adrenaline flow. I can physically feel that that's not necessarily the time to sleep, but I know that soon after I will have a crash, and so sleeping and recovering through that process and making sure, honestly, that good nutrition is part of it, like even a protein shake or something while I'm walking, make it a fun one, because you definitely even have a sugar low or something. It's all associated in there and it really helps me get back to center and also makes the apologies come that much more easily well.
44:50 - Barb Girson (Host)
Once again, I think you've honed in resources that help you both rest, recover and rejuvenate. As an athlete, you know how important that is and also to be aware of what's going on in your body chemically and that you know when cortisol is flooding your body, because and a lot of my coaching sessions with uh, people working in you know corporate they'll come in and it'll start out with my manager did this, that and the other. It's always someone they work with. I always think I'll be working for a long time because the situational leadership issues my direct reports, my boss, my boss's boss People just aren't playing according to their playbook so that all comes in, but when it's something that is flooding your system with those chemicals, that cortisol, it actually could have a shelf life of up to 26 hours or more if we're, if we're ruminating about the situation, trying to play it over and over in our mind to see if we could have it come out differently, and so it is worth it. And you hit on a couple of things, but I call it my four M's to calm our mind, and really one it's meditation. So, however, you can incorporate your deep breathing and what you're thinking about to slow down and let your body relax and inhale deeply and hold it and exhale, and there's lots of different deep breathing and meditation exercises or even apps that can help calm your mind. And then the second M you also touched on is mindfulness, and one of the ways to bring back your prefrontal cortex online is to bring your five senses in. So, whether you're repeating math calculations like the one, two, three, four, or, if it's a really tough thing, start doing some math calculations that you have to require your thinking or get in touch with your five senses. What am I seeing? What am I thinking? What am I feeling? What am I seeing? What am I thinking? What am I feeling? What am I touching?
46:45
In a corporate setting, if someone excuse my expression pisses you off, put your hands under the table or if you're on Zoom and start just rubbing your fingers together, because the sense of touch will help interrupt and break that brain circuit to bring in your mindfulness Managing yourself. It could be a grounding technique. What do you have glued around your computer that reminds you of who you are and who you want to be? I have love notes from my husband of 45 years and you know he's telling me to the sweetest person in the world. You know I love you. I'm not going to tell you how many years ago I got that no, just kidding. But I do save them, those little notes. Or maybe it's a stone that you picked up. I have a stone my granddaughter gave me and I carry it in my pocket and that's grounding to remember that moment that innocence, like a lot of things, can fall by the wayside.
47:44
So, managing ourself, and then the last M. So we have meditation, mindfulness, management of ourself and then mitigation of our story. There's usually a story going on and we're making someone else the villain or we're putting ourself the victim. And we can explore our story with a good friend or a coach or, you know, a therapist, a counselor, whoever is on your resource team, and try to change that story and say, okay, the next time it happens, what do I want to be thinking about this? How could I think about it differently? That isn't so overcoming of me. And then I do have five quick questions. Okay, do we have time for them? Yes, okay, these questions go with the acronym WAIT.
48:39 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
WAIT.
48:39 - Barb Girson (Host)
So, instead of acting when we're feeling this way, wait by the way stands for why am I talking?
48:48 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
oh yes, I should say that all the time yeah, I have to wait.
48:53 - Barb Girson (Host)
So, number one ask yourself what am I thinking, and that'll help bring up one part of the brain. And then number two what am I feeling? And that access is another part. And then number three is what do I want in this situation? Okay. Number four is this is my big one. How am I getting in my own way? Because usually I'm going to act in a way that's going to create more distance than connection in this situation. And then, what do I need to do differently? And it may help you and that really helps mitigate the story and manage yourself. And I have this actually on a tool.
49:31 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
I have a bookmark, okay, that people can access and, and I'll make sure to get all of those links in the show note and so people can find a way to access you absolutely well, it's at beyond sales tactics and it's um forward slash, amygdala dash, hijack, dash, leadership dash tool. So maybe you'll put the link in somewhere yeah, I'll put the link in with the show notes for sure they could.
49:59 - Barb Girson (Host)
They can go ahead and get that as a free tool and it can help them remember and identify amygdala hijack. Uh, the four m's and what are the five questions to recover. And I, I I actually gave that out to my family. One thanksgiving, because there is a few situations that have the potential to trigger amygdala hijacks more than all the family coming back together after adult children moving out and everyone coming in. So we had our extended family and I taught everyone about it and they were putting it on their refrigerator to help them.
50:35 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
Nice, that's a great way. Yes, adults coming back as children and parents thinking of them as children, it is those growth steps are challenging for many, no doubt about it.
50:53 - Barb Girson (Host)
Absolutely Well. We talked about the trigger, something that activates this strong emotional or psychological response, and you know, sometimes it has really deep rooted stuff back in trauma and other times it's just negative experiences and memories that I'd like to flip now to, from trigger to glimmer, yeah, glimmer.
51:16 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
Tell me about glimmer. That is my favorite these days yeah, well, that is a survival technique.
51:22 - Barb Girson (Host)
It's a small and positive and hopeful sign or experience that has the potential to improve our mood, just like I'm going through this with you and I got these glimmers of sunshine that was so prophetic.
51:36
But glimmers are small moments, just tiny moments of joy, optimism or relief that can help us counter the negative emotions or give us a sense of comfort.
51:48
I mean, I'm not going to lie, you know there's peaks and there's valleys and there's moments that are real, bona fide overwhelm, or even bigger than overwhelm, their you know, life and death experiences, and so intentionally trying to include and notice some glimmers can be a way of bringing our self-comfort and helping us get through it. So it could be anything to noticing a gesture, it could be a small achievement, and I will digress on a small achievement. And I will digress on a small achievement. My coaching clients have often told me that some of the best value that they have received is in going through a coaching engagement. They become truly attuned to acknowledge and notice their small wins and in doing so they can gain some confidence, gain some self-compassion, but also be better at noticing those wins and achievements in other people, like life is so fast and we go off through so much of that, that could be the small wins in ourself, our children, people we care about, people we work with.
53:08 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
Yes, Small wins are important. I think you're also. You're mostly Midwest based, right.
53:16 - Barb Girson (Host)
Is that true? I'm now closer to the East Coast right at this moment. Okay, I work nationally and even internationally. Moment I work, I work nationally and even internationally.
53:26 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
But so your, your accent sounds very Midwestern, is it true?
53:31 - Barb Girson (Host)
Well, I spent over 20 years in Ohio.
53:43 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
Okay, okay. I feel like there's the Midwestern kind of we if. If you celebrate too much, then you're egotistical or you're, oh, look at me. Instead of really understanding that celebration is, it's a success, and you're saying join me in celebrating, not look at me, I'm better than you. And there's, I think there's an opportunity to figure out how we can celebrate and celebrate ourselves and those little wins without feeling like people, without feeling judged or judging. Celebrating is not the same as judging, or in your face, I'm better than you, judging or in your face, I'm better than you. And there's an opportunity for all of us to learn when she is celebrating, we celebrate with her, not she's putting us down because we're supposed to look up to her, or something like this. There's, I think there's a, there's a cultural opportunity for us to be better.
54:41 - Barb Girson (Host)
Well, that's interesting that you see it as cultural, because I find that, for sure, nationally and even some international, the pace of our world today, I find, causes people to gloss over and not notice and not celebrate those small accomplishments and wins. You can quote me on things small steps in the right direction yield big results, as a matter of fact, even seemingly small steps. So really learning how to break that down. However, I do agree that we want to be able to celebrate our wins, notice them, acknowledge them. We want to be able to celebrate our wins, notice them, acknowledge them and not cross the line that we're, you know, self-question with self-confidence with self-questioning. You know we need a balance is what I'm trying to spit out, and it finally came out, I think yeah, it's perfect.
56:03 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
So well, thank you very much for joining us, Barb, today. Do you have anything else that you wanted to add? Really quickly, we're almost coming to the end here.
56:11 - Barb Girson (Host)
Yeah, I would just say that you know. Certainly, Angela. You're a wealth of information resources and a great person. As a go-to, I'd like to put myself out there. If anybody listening would like some help in gaining confidence, getting into action or grow, reach out to one or both of us and let us be on your team and help you get to your next level of greatness and that could be defined on your terms, so you don't need to go it alone, and I thank you for this time and your attention.
56:49 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
Oh, thank you so much for joining and thank you so much for sharing all of this wealth of information and your experience and how you've helped so many others in their courses and in their journeys as well. People, how can they get a hold of you if they would like to learn more about what you are doing and wanted to really reach out and contact you?
57:12 - Barb Girson (Host)
Yeah, first of all, you can look me up easily on LinkedIn, Barb Grson, and we can put that link in there and my company name, Beyond Self Tactics. They could go to beyondselftactics.com. There's a way to get a complimentary consultation if they want to find out how coaching or coaching, training and facilitation programs could help them personally or professionally. So that's the way they can reach me and Angela. They could reach both of us, because I bet we would love to team up and help anyone who wanted double support.
57:51 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
Barb, I would have so much fun doing that.
57:53 - Barb Girson (Host)
Yeah, we would have fun.
57:55 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
So people can reach me on Instagram at Creatively Efficient, and they can also find me on Facebook as Creatively Efficient and at LinkedIn as Angela Buckley, so you might find a few PhD letters behind my name, but that's really that's me. There's quite a few Angela Buckley's out there, so look for for the one with some PhD letters there.
58:18 - Barb Girson (Host)
I love those hard earned PhD letters.
58:21 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
I think I officially got the conferral date yesterday letters. I think I officially got the conferral date yesterday. So the dissertation is has been accepted and released to ProQuest so we'll see it coming out to the public very soon.
58:33 - Barb Girson (Host)
I celebrate that. I think when we first started connecting, maybe a PhD was in a distant dream dream is that yeah, yep, and now you you're. You're adding that to your rear window now. Long list of credentials and credibility that you have and and such insight, and I just love what you've done with your site your website again. That is um creativelyfficientcom.
59:02 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
Okay, the leadership group is called Strength in Nature Leadership Series.
59:08 - Barb Girson (Host)
Beautiful.
59:10 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
So thank you Fantastic.
59:11 - Barb Girson (Host)
This was fun.
59:14 - Dr. Angela Buckley (Host)
You've just listened to another episode of Overcome to Become. Thank you for joining me, Angela Buckley, your host, as we explored actions and mindsets to overcome the overwhelm and beat burnout. Did you know that when you learn to lead yourself, you can effectively learn to lead others? You can apply these skills in your home, at work and in the community. If you'd like to learn more, join us in the Strength in Nature Learning Academy. We are currently featuring the Overcome the Overwhelm course with a 20% off coupon code OTB2024. That's valid until the end of 2024. You can join me in my community at wwwstrengthennaturecom, and on Instagram at creativelyefficient. Thanks for listening. I look forward to hearing from you soon.
