ļ»æ00:01 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
Are you an aspiring leader who knows you have more to offer but you can't seem to get ahead? Do you frequently feel overwhelmed and under-supported? Listen to the Overcome to Become podcast as we talk about actionable tasks and mindsets that you can apply to begin leading yourself. Hi, I'm Dr Angela Buckley, your host and author of the Strength in Nature Leadership Series and Likeable Leadership Reflection Journals. I'm a mother, consultant, triathlete and coach In Overcome to Become. I share with you the science-backed and experienced proven lessons I've learned in my own leadership journey to beat burnout. Hello, welcome back to another episode of Overcome to Become.
00:43
Today, my guest is Charissa Sebastian-Deppin, and she is the CEO of Leadership Mastery Alliance, a company dedicated to empowering introverted women in corporate leadership roles. She's an accomplished leadership and executive coach with an MBA and an MSc in technology leadership and a PCC certification from the International Coaching Federation. Charissa's 15 plus years of corporate leadership experience, combined with her expertise as a Myers-Briggs certified practitioner, allows her to guide leaders in leveraging their strengths while avoiding burnout. She has coached executives from top-tier companies like LinkedIn, google, amazon and Microsoft. As a TEDx speaker and coach, an award-winning international keynote speaker and a contributor to Ford's and the Huffington Post, charissa's influence extends far beyond coaching. She is also a professor at Southeastern University and serves on the advisory board at the University of South Florida. Her approach helps leaders unlock their potential, thrive in their careers and make meaningful impacts within their organization.
01:53
Okay, good morning, charissa. How are you Good morning, angela, doing very well, thanks. How are you Fine? Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us today. This is the fifth season of Overcome to Become, and we are talking about boundaries. How do we use boundaries to help us maintain a healthy mindset? How do we use boundaries to overcome overwhelm, beat that burnout and really keep ourselves focused and in our swim lane, stepping out when we need to and coming back to like really protecting ourselves and the people around us, right? So I'm very excited to have you on and learn a little bit about your history, your story, and hear what you have to share with us about boundaries.
02:45 - Sharissa Deppen (Guest)
Well, thank you so much for having me and, first of all, congratulations on your first season. That is so exciting. I love the work that you're doing, so congratulations on that. Yeah, I'm excited to get started.
02:55 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
So can you tell me a little bit about some of your speaking history, share that with our audience so they know who we're talking to, and share how you came to be talking about boundaries as part of the work that you're doing right now.
03:14 - Sharissa Deppen (Guest)
Absolutely Happy to do that. So I'll give you a little bit of backstory as far as how I got to do the work that I do, and then I'll talk a little bit more about what I do and who I serve through my business and coaching. And so I started off in software engineering so that's my undergrad degree moved into the corporate world and started my corporate career way back when many, many years ago, and then through that corporate career I pretty much transitioned into leadership after a few years and spent the majority of my corporate career in technology leadership. But towards the end of my career I started to get really burnt out, like there were a lot of things that just internally was causing me a lot of stress and struggle and I couldn't figure it out Like externally. I knew that I was, you know, working longer hours and I was like, okay, am I even in the right career space? I was starting to ask myself all these questions. I was a single mom at the time, so trying to juggle that and try to juggle a really hectic schedule while still trying to figure out what the next step in my career was, and so at that particular point in time I couldn't even see myself in that next step because I didn't want my boss's job and it was like something is just, you know, something has to give, because I am just running out of energy and I don't know which way to go. And so my journey into coaching and doing the work that I do right now is very much a faith-based journey. I had to kind of come to the end of myself and then I just prayed at that point in time like, okay, god, I mean I don't know what else to do right now, I just need your help. And sure enough, after I just surrendered that one after the other, there were certain things that started to happen in my life that pointed me towards coaching.
04:39
And at the time I didn't know anything about coaching. The only reference I had for coaching was in the sports field and sports arena. But you know, a couple of people would come up to me and say, oh, you know, like I work with a coach or I've done this or that. And then I found a coach, strangely enough on Groupon of all places. So I was scrolling through Groupon and found an ad that a coach put out there and he asked all the right questions. He was a career coach and he said things like you know, are you feeling stuck in your career? Are you not sure which way to go? Do you feel like you've spent all your you know, all these years investing in a career, but now you're at a point where you're questioning where you are and you're trying to figure out how to navigate that. And so I was like, oh my goodness, yes, yes, yes, you're in my head, I need to talk to you.
05:16
And so that's how I was introduced to coaching, and I really discovered what my true gifts were, what my strengths were, what my passions were, and at the end of that, I really one of the things that was so clear to me was that that is what I want to do. I wanted to help people through that vehicle of coaching and to be able to just connect with them. I'm very much an introvert, and so I'll get to that piece in a minute, because that's how I ended up now primarily coaching introverted servant leaders. And so, as I was navigating that space, I realized that I loved working, you know, with small groups of people. I love working one on one, you know, with people to help them in their leadership journey, and so the reason I'm now focused on introverted servant leaders and I actually got to focusing more on the leadership space is because I really believe that leaders, whether you have a title, leadership title or not you have an incredible ability to have an impact on the people around you and that can have a ripple effect right that can change even your family and your kids and then generationally. And there's just so much that leaders can do. And so I work with servant leaders, and the reason I use that term is I tend to attract a lot of people into my coaching practice that just have a heart to help others, they want to give, they want to add value, they want to help their teams and support their teams in the best way possible, and they're very people-focused leaders. And so, from that perspective, that's really how I started to coach specifically introverted server teams.
06:33
And the reason I focus on introverts is because from my own personal struggle so some of it comes from my own personal struggle as an introvert in a culture or corporate culture that didn't really understand who I was, understand how I was wired, and so I just felt like, okay, there's just a lot of things that are not working. So what I do now in my coaching practice is I help introverted servant leaders really shine to first of all, understand who they are, their strengths and how to pay to their strengths, and there's what I call your leadership zone of genius. So once you understand who you are, how you're wired, you combine that with the things that you're really interested in, the things that you have a talent for, a passion for, and finding your purpose in the work that you're doing, and all of that, once all of that is aligned and you have clarity on your leadership zone of genius, it's so much easier for those introverts to step into their full power and full confidence and then go out into the world and have that impact and influence that they really want to have. So that's really how I came into the space.
07:23
And I love that we're talking about boundaries today, because as introverts, that can be a very challenging thing. Right To set those boundaries, to maintain those boundaries, because we're very like really well, not that extroverts are not, but it's very much about those relationships and people first right. And so when you talk about boundaries, that can sometimes make my introverted leaders cringe a little bit, like, oh you know, I don't want to let people down, I don't want to, you know, rock the boat. I don't want to upset people. So I love that we're addressing this, because it's so important, not just for introverts but for everybody, to hear the message that boundaries are healthy, right.
07:56
Boundaries help you to actually build on those strong relationships. If you know how to do them well, right, if you approach them in the right way, they can actually build your relationships, rather than you know tearing them down. Because I think a lot of times we have a misperception and I do too that when you talk about boundaries, it means that you have to put a barrier up right, and it's not a barrier to exclude people or exclude those interactions. It's really just to be able to function in a way that is going to help you to get you know, to build on those relationships, but then to also move forward in the healthiest possible way, while taking care of yourself. Because if your cup is not full, you know if you're running out from an empty cup, you have nothing more to give right to others. So it's so important that those boundaries are in place to help you to do that, but in a healthy way, so that you can still have that impact and influence you want to have.
08:48 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
One of the visualizations that we use when we talk about boundaries in Overcome to Become is thinking about the yard, your fence in your yard, right, and we have an entire section on minding the gates. Because what do you want? Your front, you know? What do you want your front yard to look like? It's not necessarily the same as your backyard, right, and your front gate is often very open and welcoming, but also secure, right. So there is a time and a place to have boundaries be open where people are coming in and there is a time and a place to usher them right back out. And that is super important.
09:23
That I feel like when we talk about boundaries again like when I grew up, boundaries meant you said no and if you were saying no, you weren't helping people and you were supposed to be a servant and help. And if you're not helpful, then what are you doing in the world? Right, like that. That was some of the perceptions that we kind of grew up with. So how do you fix those? How do you help someone work through a healthy boundary, communicating those boundaries and then maintaining boundaries? Right, like when I look at sense lines, you can see people putting them up, but if they don't maintain them, they fall apart. So how do you help people create them, maintain them and really work through that entire process when they've never either seen or understood what boundaries look like?
10:16 - Sharissa Deppen (Guest)
Right, such a good question. So the first thing is, I would say it's the perception of a boundary right, because a lot of times when we hear that word, like you were just saying it gives us this idea of like closed off right, or you're closing yourself in, you're saying no, you're putting your hand out, that kind of stuff. And I'm such a visual person so that's kind of the image that I get when you say that. But at the same time, if you have a you know, if you understand the benefits of having those boundaries and what that could look like and how it would actually help not just you but the people around you, it makes such a big difference. So the way I like to think about it is if you, you know, once you are really clear on your values and how to make it. So actually, the second part of that, I'm going to go to the second part and then I'll tie it together. So the first part is having a you know, a healthy perception, understanding the value and the benefit of boundaries, and then the second part I think really ties into decision making, right. So we have the ability, of course, to make decisions of what we say yes to and what we say no to and if we align those decisions really well with our values and the things that are important to us and we're really clear on that part of it before we go into our everyday and start to, you know, engage with other people. That makes it so much easier to you know, to make decisions. And so I'll give you an example from my own personal experience. When I went through that coaching process many, many years ago, one of the exercises that we went through that I now take my clients through is the values exercise. It's part of that leadership zone of genius is understanding who you are, what's really important to you no-transcript Is that going to impact? You know, my, my ability to, to plug into church and do you know those kinds of activities or whatever, whatever it is Right.
12:19
So, aligning your decisions with your, your values and making sure that when you make those decisions it's very intentional, you're not doing it from a place of, you know, feeling guilty or feeling bad and not wanting to say no. You're saying, okay, I've got to align with these values because if you don't, it's going to cause you a lot of internal stress and then you, you know, if you have that resentment, that's not the type of person that you want to show up as right in those relationships anyway. So it really has that inverse effect. You might think you're saying yes because you just want to appease somebody or you want to be there for them, but if you're doing it from a place of resentment and not joy, then it just takes away from that relationship. It makes you resentful because now you're taking yourself away from saying yes to something that was more aligned with your value. And it doesn't mean saying no doesn't mean you just you know, you just say no and you walk away.
13:01
Of course, course, you want to make sure that you are sustaining that relationship as well. So you want to be mindful of how you approach the conversation, how you say no to somebody, and just be mindful of also where they are and help them. Help give them a level of understanding, because I think a lot of times we also feel like, oh, you know and you don't. It's not to explain, you know the as far as like justify your boundary right. That's not the the point of this, but at least let them know.
13:23
Okay, I'm not able to do this right now just because I have other priorities or you know, there's other things that are already on my schedule or things that and even if that's a break for you, right?
13:33
So even if you're saying, okay, I need to rest, instead of saying yes to this thing, because that is very much, you know, if I don't rest, then I'm not going to be able to do the things that are important to me. So, coming back to answer your question about how to keep these healthy, or how to first of all understand what those boundaries are and how they can benefit not just you but the people around you, but then how to make really good decisions that align so that you can be the best version of yourself, because ultimately, that's how you serve humanity, right? It's by taking care of yourself, so that you can then step out, be the best version of yourself, in your full confidence, and serve and help people from that place, rather than a place of like resentment, because you're saying yes to all these things but now you're stressed out and you're overwhelmed by everything going on.
14:12 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
Absolutely so. How do you help people make those decisions on the yeses and the noes? What is the guidance that you go towards to help them get to that point?
14:27 - Sharissa Deppen (Guest)
Oh, I love this question and it really is much more of a proactive approach. So a lot of people think that they, just in the moment, they just have to know how to make the best decision, but it starts way before you get to that decision-making point. So I always tell people, if you're focusing on taking care of yourself, making sure that you are doing things that reduce your stress, taking care of your sleep, getting good quality sleep, focusing on nutrition, focusing on, you know, exercise and reducing, you know minimizing any health risk and things like that your social connections are so important your life that are really going to help and sustain you. When you get into a place where maybe you have a difficult conversation or there's a tough decision that needs to be made, you're in a much more present and focused state when you take care of yourself first than if you jump right in and now you're like, okay, I don't know how to make this decision. You're able to have that presence of mind.
15:17
You're able to then focus on the things that are important, going back to the aligning with your values, and make a decision from a much more informed place, much more calm, relaxed, informed place, rather than if you're jumping into these decisions from a place of stress and frustration Because, as you know, like when you're emotionally charged in that situation and you're trying to make decisions, it's very, very hard to make the very best decision in place, because oftentimes we are, you know, that emotional charge can really drive how we function, and so you don't want to get into that place. But what you want to do is be proactive and take care of yourself. Try to minimize your stress, get the rest, get everything you need so that when you do, when life is going to throw you challenges, when you are in those times of challenge, you're in a much better state because you've been proactive and you've been consistent with taking care of yourself throughout that whole journey how many of your clients come to you with their values already identified and articulated.
16:11
And I think you know the answer to that. I do. It's a leading question because I also offer the workshop on this. Yes, and I was going to say I know you are well aware of this, but in my practice, personally, though, very few, very, very few in fact when I start to talk about values, oftentimes it's like at first, when that subject comes up, it's like, oh well, what do you mean by values and what does it have to do with how I show up? And you know how I make the decisions and how I set my boundaries, and so you know, I go through that education process of like, okay, here's what it means, here's why it's important and here's why we go through this exercise, so that you can feel more at peace, more aligned, so that when you do get in a place of stress or you have to make a tough decision, um, you're doing it from a place of very of intentionality, right? So once you know the things that are important to you, you can look at it through that lens of okay, how is it going to impact if I say yes to this? How is it going to impact these different areas of my life that are really important to me? And rest can be one of those values, right? So you could say, okay, I'm really going to, because I need that rest. I need to be able to recharge, to be able to then focus and be present the rest of my life. Rest might be a top value for you. So if you're saying yes to something and it's taking away from rest, which is a value, then that's going to cause you internal conflict and struggle and you're not going to show up in the best way for that person that you're saying yes to, right? So at the end of the day, it's not going to be beneficial on both sides. And saying no doesn't mean that you just shut the door and say no and walk away, even though no, of course, is the full sentence we don't need to justify.
17:35
But again, it goes back to continuing to nurture that relationship as well. So make sure that they have some level of understanding, even if it's a very short like oh you know I can't do that right now because I have other priorities. It can be as simple as that, but also trying to meet the need as much as you can. So what I mean by that is, even though you may be saying no, see if there's any other way that you can help them. Maybe it's a resource, maybe it's somebody else that they can go to for help.
17:57
So try to understand from their perspective where they need the help and why, and see if there's anything outside of you know, like what you need, your response not responsibility, but what your role is in that to to see if you can help them in any other way, and in that way you're really growing the relationship, because you don't have to do that Right, you don't have to take that extra step of saying, ok, I can't help you right now, but here's some other ways that may be helpful if you can. Obviously, it's not always going to be possible, but, um, I think in that way you continue to build a relationship and it doesn't feel like you're just saying no and walking away and then the person's left there going. What do you mean?
18:31 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
yeah, it's true, it's real. So, um, a few years ago and I guess maybe more than a few now because my child's older, but I was um investigating the miracle morning, you know, I had heard the word, but what is it? And the steps and everything. So I was looking at it and I think it must have been on my screen and he was in third grade at the time, yeah, and he looks over my shoulder and he goes mommy, what is a miracle morning? I'm like I don't know. That's what I'm trying to figure out, like I just want to see what these people are writing about. Sounds like an interesting concept and he goes well, a miracle morning to me would be if we could go to school without you yelling at me.
19:13
Oh okay, well, because he he would be frequently late, or you know, he he was third grade, like, oh my shoes aren't tied, or soccer, or one time he wanted to know what was his lunch box, so we opened it and left the lunch strewn throughout the house, right, so it was always a rush to get out the door, but I really appreciated the concept and the fact that here he was as a third grader, like I thought I thought that was pretty honest. Right, yeah, don't yell at me in the morning. Okay, fine, I'm like, but you have to work with me. So it was an interesting opportunity for us to explore some sort of values and some boundaries. Yes, at in a in a mother child, right way, parenting way. But we didn't, obviously I didn't say boundaries, I didn't like use, value boundaries, but it was a learning opportunity. It was also good for me to hear that's his experience. It's not true every morning, but you know like, in fairness, you got to get out the door on time and sometimes there was a little bit of hustle involved.
20:24
So how do you help people who are also like navigating? Because boundaries are so hard as a parent and, like you know, I need my downtime. I also need to recover so that I am available and present for my child when he needs me. How do you help people navigate that, especially since you're talking about introverts? I feel like I'm an ambivert, so I'm somewhere in between. All of that, right, but if you're an extreme introvert, I can only imagine that parenting could be very hard sometimes, especially if you have an extrovert child. Yes, absolutely. How do you help people navigate responsibility with boundaries?
21:14 - Sharissa Deppen (Guest)
Ah, good question. So, as an introvert introverts in general tend to be very introspective, right so they take it all in all of this information. But sometimes that can lead to this, like because we're you know we're consuming, to this, like because we're you know we're consuming so much information, we're getting input from the people around us and all of that, and we try to internalize all of these things and make sense of it and then make the best possible decisions. And so, when it comes to boundaries, that can be really challenging, because it's not our first inclination is not necessarily to just speak up in the moment, right, and stand up for ourselves or set that boundary or whatever it is, and so. So, when it comes to parenting, I think, just opening up the conversation, I love what you, the example that you gave with your son. First of all, the honesty and the fact that you created space, and that's another thing. Right, it's important to create space for those kinds of honest conversations around okay, something's not working here or how can we do this better. And I always, you know, when I coach my clients, especially when it comes to having difficult conversations like if something's not working, they feel like a boundary line is being crossed and things like that. One of the first things I say is, like, let's look at the level of understanding. Does that other person have an understanding of what you're trying to achieve? Are you aligned on what the expectation is, and so on? And so that also relates to parenting, right? So you know, in that example that you just gave, gave your son, wanted to spend that quality time with mom and wanted you both to enjoy.
22:27
You know, it sounds like to enjoy each other's company in the morning, and so that was the end goal, that was the end result, and so starting with the end in mind is another important part of that. It's like okay, what are we trying to achieve in the situation? And then coming back to the conversation of okay, what's the best way for us to to get there so you can have a conversation around? Okay, this is what I need from my part to be able to. But once you're on the same page, it makes that conversation so much easier, right? Like, okay, we're both on the same page. We want to have a great morning, we want to, you know, have a great ride to school and all of that kind of stuff and enjoy each other's company in the morning. Okay, so what needs can get all these things done, so that by the time we get into the car, I'm not thinking about that anymore, we don't have to have a conversation because it's already done.
23:11
And so, starting from that place where there is alignment, where there's already, you know, buy-in and you're like, okay, we both agree on what that end result is, now let's work backwards and say what needs to happen, and so that's where that boundary conversation can become a little bit easier. And also where there's a level of understanding when you're asking questions of the person that's, you know that's on the other side of that boundary, or the person that you're trying to set the boundary with, asking them and being curious about what are their needs and things like that, but also being very clear so that they have an understanding of where you're coming from, why that's important and how that's ultimately going to help, you know, get to whatever that end result or that objective is. I'm using a lot of. I just realized I'm using a lot of corporate terms that I would use in my clients, but that is very much is relatable to parenting as well.
23:54 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
I think there's so many lessons right.
23:57
Obviously, I've done 25, 30 years of corporate as well, but I find that there's so much more relatable content when we talk about the parenting and, to be honest with you, what I see is the emotional burden is closer to the parenting and the personal relationships, and so if you can learn the emotional regulation in the household, I think it's easier to apply that in the corporate setting.
24:31
Owning your boundaries I think it's easier with someone that you don't know as well or you only see them eight hours of the day or something. It's a lot harder to own your boundaries, and so that's the reason I talk a lot about the boundaries and a lot about the mindset in the personal life setting, because I think if you can really master it here, you can apply it in corporate. There are other things and, yes, absolutely like what is your goal setting and how can we do? We can talk all the way through that, but the the emotional triggers tend to be at home and the lack of sleep tends to be at home yes yes, and that's such a good point yeah, because it does start.
25:15 - Sharissa Deppen (Guest)
And that's where that, when I was talking about being proactive before, that's where that comes in, right, because if you're not getting enough sleep, if you are stressed out in your home environment, of course it's going to have an impact on how you show up at work. And you're absolutely right, like for most of us, home is a safe space, right, so that's where we're like, okay, we can breathe. At the end of the day, we're at home. But that also means that whatever is happening at the office, whatever you're carrying with you emotionally, is also going to filter into, you know, how you show up at home. And because we're more relaxed, we, we're more relaxed.
25:42
We don't tend to be like at work we show up very professionally. So mentally, we're already in this professional mindset and so it's a little bit, maybe a little bit easier right in that setting, because you know you have to show up in a professional way. You're more intentional most of the time compared to when you're at home, because when you're at home you're just comfortable. That's your environment, that's your safe%. Agree with you. It's so much harder to do this with the, your loved ones and the ones that spend a lot of time with you at home or even outside of the house, versus when you're at work and you have to. You know you're in a little bit of a different mindset at work versus at home.
26:19 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
I find that if we can master it at home, all of the other things sort of fall into place more easily, because home is where we recharge, right. So if you're an introvert or like again I say ambivert, I have to be. I feel that I have to be extroverted at work for most of my work because I'm a people leader, right, if I'm out and about, then I'm engaging, and by the time I get home I need some introverted time. But that's also when the child needs you, right, so how, and that you have to keep going. And so this learning how to navigate that, learning how to communicate that, and also helping the people around you learn what they need so that you can navigate that as well. Right, Like, part of this is also role modeling how to become a community citizen, and I think that's important as a people leader at work, and I think it's an important role as a people leader of your own home, right, the parenting, Like.
27:20
There's a meme that's going around the internet where the guy's like I'm their manager, I made my people right, and it's all his kids and but it's really cute and he's talking about how he's like, basically, the manager of the household and he is teaching them leadership skills and, of course, like, there's all funny things where the kids are not doing what they're supposed to be doing. But it's funny, right, Like. But I think there's a lot of value in that conversation of learning and growing. And when you set those boundaries, they learn how to set those boundaries and, collectively, the people around you are able to honor the boundaries as well. So that's another question I have If you're in a workspace where people have not learned how to honor boundaries, how do you help bring your team along to understand what those boundaries are and how they can honor them for you?
28:22 - Sharissa Deppen (Guest)
Yeah, absolutely, and that's actually an important part of boundaries. It's not just saying, ok, I won't do this, or I have to say no to this or that or the next thing, and coming up with your no list. It's also, well, the communication we've touched on that as well right, so, communicating that in an effective way. But there's also a consequence to that right. So, for example, if you do have to say no to certain things because it doesn't align with, so talk a lot about, like, your work priorities and the things that are important to you from that perspective, right. And being able to, when you get a request from another team or when you get a request from someone, to be able to filter it through and say, okay, where does this fall? And the things that are really important to me. It can be in terms of, like, you know what goals and things like that, but also just personally, for how you want to spend your time. Does it fit into one of those areas where? That's where you know it makes the most sense for you to spend your time? And so, in doing that, when you say no to something, that means that they can ask you 10,000 times, and that's where the maintenance of the boundary comes in, right. So you've got to hold that boundary, because if you don't, then it causes confusion for people. If you say no sometimes and then they know that when they come back the third or fourth time you're going to say yes anyway, they're going to keep doing that.
29:22
It's very the same thing in parenting, right? So, and I've seen this over and over again, even in my own parenting I had to learn this the hard way and it seemed like and even my mom, when she came to visit me, she was like, oh, you're really strict. I'm like no, you, just you have to set those boundaries and teach them how. Yeah, you've got to hold them, and that doesn't mean you have to. You know, you can do it in a kind and loving way. But at the same time, if you're not modeling that, then it makes it really hard for people to engage with you. Going back to that work, work setting, right. So if they say you're trying to, you know, help them, meet them halfway if you can, and if they keep coming back with the same request, you've got to hold that boundary and say you know, nothing has changed on my end I'll let you know if it does, you know. But at the same time we just you've got to hold the boundary, because if you don't, then I always say, like you teach people how to treat you right, so if they learn from you that after a while, if they keep knocking on your door, eventually you're going to open the door and say, yes, well, then there goes that boundary. Then it's so much harder to reinstate that boundary. And again, if you understand why that boundary is so important and how it benefits everyone, it makes it easier to hold that boundary.
30:38
But it does take same with parenting. It takes that consistency. You've got to be consistent and people are going to learn from that. Right, they're going to learn after. It may take some people a little longer than others to figure it out, but they're going to learn how to engage with you. You know, in a healthy way, when you are able to maintain those boundaries.
30:55
And also, the other thing I want to address with that too is it doesn't mean that when you set a boundary that that's hard and fast, and then you know there's obviously going to be exceptions to that. There's going to be those, but those should be one-offs rather than the norm, right? So, um, keep that in mind as well, and boundaries can change over time depending on the season that you're in and what's going on. So when you're in a season where you have younger kids or kids at home, those boundaries are going to look very different than maybe when you know. When you don't have the response the kids at home you don't have that level of responsibility.
31:21
You may have more flexibility, so it's going to. You know you, you do have more flexibility, so it's going to. You know you do have to be flexible and adaptable. But you have to check in with yourself and just see okay, is this boundary still working? Is it still helping me? Is it still serving others around me? If not, then you know, maybe it's time for a change. But ultimately you want to be consistent with those boundaries. You want to have pickings, make sure that you're setting the right boundaries and they make the most sense. But also that consistency is going to be really key with maintaining the boundary.
31:46 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
I often ask are you making a threat or are you promising? Right? Like there's usually consequences, Right, Because if it's a threat, it's just empty. I mean, it's still not healthy, Right, but if it's a promise, this is going to be what happens if you don't do something or whatever. Like you're again, it's this. It's the same kind of it's maybe a different side of the conversation, but it's still boundary setting. These are the rules. This is what happens when you don't follow them. This is my personal boundary. This is what happens when you don't follow them, as opposed to well, if you keep needling me, eventually I'll break down?
32:24 - Sharissa Deppen (Guest)
Right, absolutely. And also the other. I want to touch on the emotional part of that as well, because when based on what you just said, right, so if you keep needling me, maybe eventually I'm going to break down, but what does that do to you? Right? So that causes a lot of stress, a lot of frustration, and so eventually you're not saying yes out of a place of like peace. And because you want to, you say yes because you just want the noise to go away, right, you want the person to stop asking you. And that's not healthy, that's not good for you, even from a health perspective, right, to have that kind of struggle going on, and it's also not the best to build that relationship with the other person either.
32:56
So you do want to make sure going back to what you said earlier about emotionally regulating, when you set those boundaries, it shouldn't be an emotionally charged thing, right? It's like, okay, if you're clearly communicating this boundary to somebody and you're consistent with that boundary, there's no stress involved. Right, it's like, okay, I'm going to, I know the boundary, I know how to communicate it, I'm going to be consistent with how I communicate it. It doesn't have that same emotional charge as if you get really frustrated and you're like I told you for a million times, you know, I'm not going to do this.
33:22
It is a very different thing. It's basically saying, okay, I'm not able to do that. And you can say the same thing over and over. I always tell my clients I'm like, don't be afraid to do that, because a lot of times they think like, oh, this person's going to come back Now, what do I tell them? I'm like you say the same thing, you know, based on these priorities, and come back at another. You know, maybe we'll talk about this at another point in time, but right now that's not gonna. You know that we just can't take that on. And so, yeah, I think that consistent not just the consistency in the behavior, but the consistency in the communication is going to be important as well.
34:00 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
So if there's a task that I've done in the past but I don't have the bandwidth for right now and I need to set the boundary not that the task isn't something I'm willing to do, but that the workload is unacceptable at the moment how do I communicate that? Do I ask them to check back with me in two or three months or at the end of this project? Can I communicate that I'm willing to take on that task, but not at my current?
34:27 - Sharissa Deppen (Guest)
workload? Oh, that's a good question. So that means you would have to have a lot of awareness right about your timeline, where you want to spend your time, what makes the most sense both now and at some point in the future. So one thing to be careful of in that kind of situation is to promise at a different particular, you know, like a different point in time to say, okay, come, I can probably get this done. And I know that's not the way you phrased it, but I do want to point that out promising something at you know, at another point in time, because you that makes you feel better, right when you're like, oh, I can't do it now, but I'll do it next week. But you don't know what's going to be on your schedule for next week. You don't with your priorities at that point in time.
35:03
So what I always suggest to my clients is, in those types of situations, you can let them know. Yes, I've done this in the past, but just based on the priorities that I have now, there's just too many things that I have to focus on, so I'm not able to do it right now. Let's revisit this. Can we revisit it in maybe a week or two, rather than committing to it at a different point in time, revisit it so that you can then, at that point in time, make the best possible decision on both sides.
35:28
And it gives them an opportunity. You're giving them enough information so that they can make the best decision for them too. They can easily you know if they, if you're telling them that they can go, okay, either yes, that will work and we'll revisit, or they can you know, they can say no, actually I don't think that timeframe is going to work, but I can go and ask somebody else for that help, or I can see if I can push the, you know, extend the deadline or whatever. Whatever the case may be, so you're also it's in service to them, because you're giving them an opportunity to then solve and you're empowering them to say, okay, it's not going to work out this way, but now I've got to try to figure out, maybe another way to try to figure this out. So, yeah, I think.
36:01 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
I think the wording there is powerful as well. It's critical to put the burden on them to come back to you in a week. If that's what you're saying, I may have time next week. Come back if you still need me, which is different than saying I will do it next week or whatever else.
36:20
But, the burden still remains on them because it's still their task that they're trying to offload or asking you for help, right? So I think power, finding the power words in your approach, for your boundary, you can deliver those calmly, but then understanding where that's going to fit together. Maybe Is that like, like, does that make sense?
36:45 - Sharissa Deppen (Guest)
yes, absolutely. And the other thing and I love that you brought this up as well that language, like you said, is so important. How you respond is so important, and especially for my introverted leaders, because they don't like being put on the spot a lot of times, right, because introverts tend to you know they, they take in that information. They need time to internally process before they can make a decision. They don't like to be put on the spot immediately because it doesn't give them that time that they need to be able to sift through and analyze it internally and then be able to make the best decision. And oftentimes introverts will put themselves in a position where they just make decisions on the spot and then they get so stressed out about it because they're like, oh, I didn't really have time, I'm not second guessing all of those things. So I always tell my introverts it's very easy for us to assume that the response needs or the decision needs to be made in that moment, and most times that's not the case at all, right? So just because you get a request doesn't mean you have to respond or have an answer to that request in that moment. You don't have to say yes or no.
37:34
In that moment you can give yourself space and I definitely encourage this. I can. You know, I always tell them you can find out from the other person. Would it be okay if I get back to you by tomorrow? I just need to figure things out, I need to look at my priorities and, you know, just work through some things so that I can give you the best possible answer.
37:50
So, give yourself the space and ask, you know, ask them, is that okay? Can I, you know, is it okay if I give you an answer by tomorrow? There's going to be some times when there's something critical and maybe they giving yourself the ability and that room to to again process and make the best possible decision, and so that you don't ever feel like you have to constantly, you know, be on the spot and say yes or no in the moment, because most of the time that's not, that's not necessary. You can simply say I need a little bit of time. Can I get back to you tomorrow? You know, something like that, something as simple as that, so that you're you're not putting yourself in a position where you're going to make a quick decision that you're later going to regret, sure.
38:29 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
So I'm going to take a little bit of a turn in my question. Give me a second here. You've talked a lot about people pleasing, and I use this phrase a lot too. I'm taking people from people pleasers to people leaders, and when people who have traditionally been people pleasers they have not held their boundaries and then they start holding boundaries, they often find themselves in a point of struggle because the people around them, because they have taught, we teach people how to to interact with us right, and now we're changing those rules and maybe we're losing relationships or friendships along the way. As we peel back that onion and find our central core. How do you help people navigate that for themselves?
39:29 - Sharissa Deppen (Guest)
That's a really, really tough one, especially with people-focused leaders right, when they just have such a hard time to help people. So one of the things that is so important. Well, there's a couple of concepts that I want to share that I think might be helpful here. One is this idea of your board of directors, so the people in your sphere, the people that you're intentionally allowing to influence what you know, your thought process, your decision-making process, all of those things. So I always tell people and this kind of comes to. It reminds me of a quote from Jim Rohn, and he said that you're the average of the five people that you spend the most amount of time with, so being really intentional who you allow in your space and to influence you and things like that. And so it goes back to what you were saying about like setting those boundaries, because a lot of times, because we're so people focused and you know a lot of us are people focused leaders it is very difficult because we tend to think about things and have empathy right, and think about things from other people's perspective and we don't want to let them down, and so we get into that people pleasing mode.
40:24
But another concept that I want to share is focus on what you can control versus what you can't, because your energy is going to go where your focus is right. So wherever you focus, it's either going to drain you or it's going to energize you. And so if you're focusing on the things that you can't control, then you're setting yourself up for failure. If you're trying to please people all the time, you're never going to achieve that because it's impossible to please everyone all of the time. Time you're never going to achieve that because it's impossible to please everyone all of the time. So the best thing that you can do in those situations is be the best version of yourself. That's going to help you to set up those healthy relationships and boundaries.
40:55
And sometimes people are in our lives for a season. Right, we can't go chasing after people because again, that takes us out of what we can control and how we show up into now trying to convince somebody, and that convincing energy is very different from influence. So I talk a lot about influence in my coaching, but the convincing is now you're trying to make something happen or to change the way somebody engages with you and things like that, and that's not always going to be possible. Influence you can only take to a certain level and to a certain point. And then you have to understand the person on the other side of that. Or the people on the other side of that have a responsibility on how they want to engage with you. Right, they get to choose how they feel, what they say to you, how they react, how they respond, and sometimes that's going to mean that they back away and that's very, very hard, right, it's very hard to see that happening and to experience that, but, at the same time, understanding that you can only control you. You cannot control how other people engage with you.
41:46
And so, again, the best thing you can do because otherwise it's just going to harm your other relationships, right, if your energy and focus is going to go on like mending this relationship, that maybe doesn't need to. You know where your focus doesn't need to go. It takes you away from the things that are actually really important, it causes a lot of stress and that's going to flow over into every other area of your life. So, again, sometimes people are in our life for a season. That doesn't mean that you, you know you don't do your part to try to mend that relationship or to try to keep that relationship going but at the same time, if that keeps encroaching on your boundaries, that's a sign, right, that something's not right.
42:14
If my boundaries keep, boundary lines keep getting crossed over and over and over, it may be time to step back and say you know, tell the person, if it's like a you know personal relationship, I love you, but I have to keep this boundary because it's just, it's hurting me, it's hurting me and it's hurting our relationship, and that's okay. It's okay to say that from a place of love and kindness. And if that person chooses again, that's out of your control, right? If that person chooses to walk away, there's nothing you can do about that. And chasing that person again is taking you away from the other areas of your life that are going to be really important um, thank you.
42:53 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
Thank you for that. What other tips and tricks do you offer as people are getting started, or what are they looking for? What are you looking for in your client that you're like hey, this is somebody that I know I can really help so the first thing is just being open, like from a coaching perspective, being open to the coaching process.
43:09 - Sharissa Deppen (Guest)
I always tell my clients it's so exciting because you're going to uncover things about yourself that you never knew. You're going to uncover even options for yourself and things that you've never dreamed of possible, and it's a really fun and exciting process. But you have to be open to that right. So you have to be open to exploring things from a different perspective, maybe even challenging some of your belief systems and things like that. It's not that I'm here as your coach to instill different beliefs in you, but I am going to ask you questions to help you to uncover what is it that you believe and how is that helping you? Or, you know, are there ways that that what's the best way basically to navigate some of these, these areas and to get you closer to where you want to be? So it's not an easy process, so you have to be open to that process. So that's what I would say. That's the easy like if you are open to exploring and you're open to saying, okay, there's certain things that I just want to achieve, that I'm aspiring to, or there's certain challenges that I just seem to be struggling with over and over. If you are open to the process of exploring what you know like, what it is that could be causing that, and then also you're engaged in the process to help you figure out how to best address those challenges in the way that you know it's going to feel the best to you and it's going to align with who you are, then you're probably a really good fit for coaching.
44:13
But again, you have to be.
44:15
You have to be open to the to the process and I will say it doesn't happen very often, but there's probably, in my like, more than a decade of experience doing this is maybe two maximum of three people over that 10 plus year period where I have had to say upfront in the coaching process, like during our very first conversation I don't think coaching is right for you.
44:32
I can offer you other resources and things like that, but based on you know where you are right now, I don't think the coaching process is going to be the best course of direction for you. So you do have to be open, you do have to be willing to, you know, to go through that process, you have to be engaged in the coaching process and you have to be committed to it. So that means consistency in figuring this out and it doesn't have to be just coaching, right? So if you identify an area that you want to work in, be consistent with like your had been consistent and intentional with how you move forward in that and just be open to the process and, you know, open to what God is going to show you through that, because when you start to ask the questions, it's incredible what answers can come out of that whole process.
45:11 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
You know it's really interesting. You talk about the coaching. I was giving a leadership seminar to a bunch of newly graduated. I want to say they were in their first two or three years of corporate life and I asked them how many of them have a coach? And no one raised their hand. And I was like but how many of you had a music teacher, a mentor, a coach growing up? Right? And of course everyone raised their hand. These were like the leaders of the next gen for that company.
45:44
And I'm like and why do you think you don't need a coach now? And I'm like and why do you think you don't need a coach now? What are your next steps? And it is so interesting to me that we get out and I see this more in a corporate versus the entrepreneurs, corporate setting frequently are not willing to engage with coaching at the same level. So and I've seen that now a couple times, but the contrast right, 30 kids, right Kids. I say kids, they're young adults raising their hand. Yes, we've had coaching and yes, we had positive experiences with our coaches and our mentors. None of them continue forward. So just, I think, the opportunity to keep that growth mindset in play as you move from 22 to 30, 30 to 40, put a comma in your education, not a period.
46:51 - Sharissa Deppen (Guest)
Oh, I love that and I love that you asked the question. So thank you for asking our next generation Such an important question, right? Because I think that we haven't. I mean, I certainly didn't grow up with a coach. I didn't even know what that was when I was going into the workforce and things like that, but I love that you know, you're basically putting a spotlight on this and asking the questions to help people to figure out.
47:10
Oh, is this something that actually would really help me, and I think there's a number of reasons why that's not really addressed or talked about when it comes to the workplace, and so and what I am encouraged by, though, is a lot of companies are now taking the initiative to offer coaching within, you know, to the employees within the company, to be able to give them that extra support. But even in addition to that, I don't think we're there yet where people are, you know, really aware of the benefits of coaching and how that can help them, not even just in their professional life, but how that really impacts their personal life and how they show up and how they feel and all of those kinds, and even how they just function in the world. Right, it makes such a. I can just tell you from my own experience too, and working with my clients, it's like a night and day difference. I mean, I get told all the time that the way I feel now and how I show up to work is completely different than before I went into the. You know the coaching process. So there's so many benefits to it, but it's not as widely talked about.
48:12
I'm starting to see more be done, um, especially with, you know, our young people that are going either going into college or then transitioning into the workplace, like just how important it is to have that support system.
48:16
I mean, we're not created to be alone, right. We're created to be in community, we're created to have that level of support, and there's people out there that are trained, that know you know, know how to support you in the best possible way. So I always tell, um, even just my own, you know, my daughter and my step-sons I'm like get the help, like don't try to figure stuff out on your own, whether that's through us, as your parents or, you know, through coaches or whoever it is, mentor, whoever you can find, especially as you transition into adulthood, because many of our adults, right, young adults are not really equipped. Not that they're not equipped, they can, they're resourceful so they can try to figure it out. But I think we have a responsibility too, as an older generation, to help them to navigate and plug into some of those resources and be aware of those resources so that they have the choice to make you know that they can make to really get the help and support that they need.
49:02 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
Well, I think people are just living longer and so you have a greater opportunity to kind of expand your development.
49:11
I think, on one hand, and on two generations have larger gaps now.
49:18
So, right, like when, a couple generations ago, people were having kids when they were in their young 20s and you might have a little more identification with your parents, because you don't, you haven't lost, like I was 35, 36 when I had my child.
49:34
That's, there's a big difference between my mom having me when I was 21 or she was 21 or 22, right, there's decades of difference in the relationship that I'm going to have with my child versus what she had with me. And so I think you and you see this, this that's, that's a phenomenon across the United States, in general, third world countries. So I think you need somebody to help with those gaps, because that's basically two gens when we talk about two gen away, you're not just one gen away from your kid anymore, and so that creates even more of a distance where that coaching is super important to help bridge some of those gaps, because things have changed and that's okay, but understanding that, like we all have different roles to play in the development of the people around us, and they all have different roles to play in our own personal development as well.
50:33 - Sharissa Deppen (Guest)
That's absolutely right. Yeah, this is such a hot topic. I was just asked this on another podcast yesterday about that the generation gap, right, and how do we engage, especially in the workforce, with people in these different generations? And it's so important to, number one, recognize that and recognize that we're all coming with these different generations and even within a generation, right, we all have different belief systems. We all have different assumptions that we're bringing in or expectations and things like that, and so it's so important to be mindful of that, not to put people in a box and say, oh, you're Gen whatever, you're Gen X, and so you function in this way. It's not that Just to be mindful of how we engage with different generations, and even just with our younger generation. In order to reach the younger generation, we need to have a level of understanding, be curious about, like what are their thoughts? What is important to them? Like, what aspirations do they have? How do they want to see, you know, the workplace, what are the things that are important to them. Once we have that level of understanding, it's so much easier to then engage in the process of helping and supporting them and saying, ok, so this is what you're telling me, this is what I'm understanding from what you need. Now I can step in and say, ok, have you considered this or that Right? So from a coaching perspective, that's very much. That's such an important.
51:41
Part of the process is to first lean in with curiosity and understanding, and then you know, then transition into problem solving and saying, okay, so this is the challenge that you're facing. Now let's lock arms and figure out what's the best way forward, rather than jumping into assumptions and I did this. Oh, my goodness, I was a queen of this before. I knew anything about coaching. It's very easy to make assumptions right and so.
52:02
So that is something that I would definitely especially if you're not in the coaching space or if you haven't had coaching before if I were to say this to my you know, I wish I could have said this to my younger self when I was first starting out in my corporate career be very careful about jumping to conclusions and making some assumptions, because that, can you know, it just causes so much frustration and stress. But when you lean in with curiosity, you're opening up the conversation and you want to really understand people and serve them from, you know, a genuine place of just wanting to help, it makes all the difference, rather than sitting back and say oh, you responded to me in that way, therefore you don't like me, you know that kind of thing. Because that just creates internal barriers and it just makes those relationships so much, so much harder. And I see this also with generations. Right, oh, you're in Gen X, so you know you don't relate to me, or you're in Gen X, whatever it is.
52:56 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
And so we want to be very careful about making those assumptions, because it's most of the time, it's just not true. It's not true. Yeah, charissa, thank you so much for your time today. What nugget would you like to leave for our listening audience today?
53:07 - Sharissa Deppen (Guest)
Oh, okay, I think the one thing and this kind of goes back to what we were talking about in the beginning but boundaries are loving and kind. If there's anything that I can say that I'm hoping that your audience is going to take away is that it is loving and kind, and so when you take the time to understand why it's so important and even just personalize it for yourself, like why boundaries in your life matter and why it's important and how that really aligns, you know, can align really well with the things that are important to you and how you can make the best, you know, the very best decisions for yourself, even just for your family and for your team and all of that. You just you have to have boundaries as part of that overall puzzle. So, yeah, I would just say, just remember boundaries are loving and kind of helps you be the best version of yourself.
53:54 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
So then you can serve from a place of a full cup rather than an empty cup. I love that. Thank you so much for sharing. Share us. So where can people get a hold of you? Of course, I'll put all of the links in the share, in the show notes, but let's make sure that we get that out verbally as well. Oh, thanks.
54:05 - Sharissa Deppen (Guest)
Angela. I appreciate that. So if you have any questions, first of all of anyone that's listening if you have any questions or if you want to reach out to me, you can email me at info that's info at leadershipmasteryalliancecom. You can also go to our website at leadershipmasteryalliancecom and there's a lot more there on what we do and how we can serve you and help you. There's also a ton of free resources, free trainings, on there. I would also love your listeners to follow me on LinkedIn because, again, I share a lot of great content there, totally for free, and I would just love to connect with anyone listening. So if you go to LinkedIn and just search for Charissa Sebastian or Charissa Sebastian Deppin, you'll find me there as well. So, and please let me know you know, if you do connect with me on LinkedIn, let me know that you found me through this podcast, and so it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you, angela, for having me on.
54:48 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
Thank you so much for joining. I'd also like to invite you to join us on the Gratitude Leadership Collective that is the group on LinkedIn as well, and we're really focusing on how gratitude can be that mediator against burnout right and helping people, and it's a critical element of servant and transformational leadership.
55:10 - Sharissa Deppen (Guest)
Yes, and thank you for all the work that you do. It's so needed and very critical.
55:15 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
You've just listened to another episode of Overcome to Become. Thank you for joining me, Angela Buckley, your host, as we explored actions and mindsets to overcome the overwhelm and beat burnout. Did you know that when you learn to lead yourself, you can effectively learn to lead others? You can apply these skills in your home, at work and in the community. If you'd like to learn more, join us in the Strength in Nature Learning Academy. We are currently featuring the Overcome the Overwhelm course with a 20% off coupon code OTB2024. That's valid until the end of 2024. You can join me in my community at wwwstrengthennaturecom, and on Instagram at creativelyefficient. Thanks for listening. I look forward to hearing from you soon.
