ļ»æ00:01 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
Are you an aspiring leader who knows you have more to offer but you can't seem to get ahead? Do you frequently feel overwhelmed and under-supported? Listen to the Overcome to Become podcast as we talk about actionable tasks and mindsets that you can apply to begin leading yourself. Hi, I'm Dr Angela Buckley, your host and author of the Strength in Nature Leadership Series and Likeable Leadership Reflection Journals. I'm a mother, consultant, triathlete and coach In Overcome to Become. I share with you the science-backed and experienced proven lessons I've learned in my own leadership journey to beat burnout.
00:38
Hello, please join me today in welcoming Kamini Wood. She's an entrepreneur, author, podcaster and certified life coach who specializes in helping high achievers overcome anxiety, stress, perfectionism and toxic relationships. As the founder and CEO of Live Joy, your Way and the creator of the Authentic Me Method, Kamini empowers individuals to break free from limiting beliefs, release trauma and rediscover their authentic selves. I am so excited to have her as part of our podcasting guests and if you want to hear more from Kamini, swing on over and listen to her on her podcast, the Rise Up, live Joy, your Way podcast. On her podcast, the Rise Up, live Joy, your Way podcast. Hi, Kamini, thank you so much for joining us today on Overcome to Become.
01:31
This is our fifth season of Overcome to Become, this podcast that's really targeted at helping our audience members beat burnout prevent all of those activities that get you and allow you to slide into burnout and this season we have been focusing on boundary setting techniques for being successful with our boundary setting, expecting that backlash because you know the people around us probably also need to make some adjustments and how we can manage some of that backlash, manage setting things and also being reasonable. Humans like being flexible with our boundaries as well. So trying to really navigate the nuances in order to take care of ourselves and set boundaries. And I'm so excited to have you today here to talk to us about self compassion, about boundary setting and the work that you've been doing with your clients, and maybe you can share some insight for some of our people as well how they can set boundaries, how they could be successful, and maybe even a story or two, what you've seen with some of your clients, because I don't want to say misery loves company, but we definitely learn from stories.
02:50 - Kamini Woods (Host)
Oh, absolutely, and I just want to say thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here with you. So I am a human potential coach on a professional level, I should say, because on a personal level I'm a mom of five, but personally, or professionally rather, I am a human potential coach. I work with individuals on understanding themselves on a deeper level so that they can work through things like burnout, imposter syndrome, a lack of self-confidence, anxiety, stress, all of the overwhelm, all of that, Because when we get to that deeper understanding of self, we can then take action to move through it right. So it's never about diagnosis, it's always about let me create some understanding in order to then decide how I want to move through.
03:33
My journey to what I do is actually one of personal experience, as well as then going down the path of professional training. So I, by nature, you know I am definitely a people pleaser, I'm an overachiever, I'm an over-functioner. So boundaries is a hot topic for me because I absolutely had to be in it to learn how to do it and to work it. And I'm still learning because I think we're all evolving and always growing. But I went through my own transformation, my own personal growth journey, I want to say I kind of hit a crescendo about a decade ago or so and through that process not only did I learn more about myself, but I recognized that I had always wanted to work with individuals on helping them just navigate whatever challenges they have.
04:20
I didn't know what capacity that was, but as I went through my own journey I realized I could do this professionally. So then of course, I did the trainings. I've done a multitude of trainings in order to work with people wherever they're at right, Because some people do great cognitively but other people need to get to it somatically. So I just really dove into that headfirst from an educational standpoint. So bring my personal experience along with the training together to do what I'm doing and I've been doing it for the last. My practice, my one-on-one practice, I've been doing for about seven to eight years at this point. So Excellent.
04:52 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
Well, thank you. So I'm sure you have many stories to share, lots of experience, Excellent, and also mom of five. You know, one of the things that I think about parenting that really helps in the leadership journey is so much flexibility. Every time you think you figured it out, they go and change. Those little kids grow, gosh darn it, which is wonderful, and you have to do that five times over and I don't think that it's the same every time.
05:23 - Kamini Woods (Host)
Oh no, it is different with each one of them because they have different personalities. And then I'm managing the 20-somethings with my oldest and my two oldest, I should say and then my youngest is 11. So still in the preteen stage.
05:35
So I'm balancing two different worlds right now, and to your point, I mean, it is different because they each have their different personalities, but also my own parenting has changed and evolved over time because you learn and you grow and you recognize that. For me, and that's what part of my work is working with parents on mindful parenting and what does that mean. So my oldest will tease me about how I do not parent my youngest the same way that she got parented.
06:02 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
So I was the oldest of four and then helped and then my grandma has 32 grandchildren and I was one of the oldest I think third oldest in ranking and someone made a comment that I didn't parent like a first time parent and it's probably because I had all these young kids growing up behind me right, and I'm seeing this with my child that he is now starting to help a lot more with his younger cousins, since we're close by. But it's interesting, the evolution, and I think what I want to encourage people to take away from parenting is that you can learn leadership lessons and boundary setting lessons everywhere that you are, and the home is a great, safe place to practice.
06:50 - Kamini Woods (Host)
A hundred percent. Oh, I so agree with that statement. I actually equate a lot of my leadership coaching to parenting, believe it or not, because that is the place where we I mean we're in it 24-7, learning how to lead.
07:04 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
So we're definitely in it to win it right, like I want to be a successful parent because I want my child to be successful, and so it's hard to set the boundaries. I would say that's probably where I struggle most personally is setting boundaries with my child, because I always think that they come first. Yes, do you see that also with other clients?
07:31 - Kamini Woods (Host)
I see that and I also see the difficulty with setting boundaries as a parent with children, because it's so difficult to see them disappointed right, because when we see them disappointed or upset or sad as parents, we take that on and make it ours, and so that will keep.
07:48
Many, many of my clients struggle with setting boundaries due to that, because they don't want to be the person that disappoints the child and and really it's about reframing what that boundary is is being set for. Most of the time, we're setting those boundaries for the greater good or the greater benefit of our child and really the temporary feeling of sadness or disappointment can be worked through rather than avoiding it completely, because what that means is we avoid the boundary altogether and then they don't get what they actually need. They're not getting whatever lesson or understanding that it is that they actually need for the longer term period of their entirety of their life, right? So yeah.
08:31 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
So when you're working with clients, do they frequently come to you specifically because of boundary setting in general? Or how do they get to you, like when they are approaching, I've never had someone walk up and say, boy, I need help setting boundaries. But a lot of us can point fingers at people and say they need help setting boundaries. So how do you get someone into that conversation kindly and with compassion?
09:02 - Kamini Woods (Host)
That is such a great question because you're absolutely right. I don't think anybody has ever come to me and said Kamini, I need help setting boundaries and that's why I'm here. Usually it's some context of feeling stuck or feeling like something's not working, feeling just down, overwhelmed, anxiety. That's a big tell-all that, oh wow, if you're feeling overwhelmed or burnt out, that could be boundaries. Really, it's about carefully understanding and creating space for them to actually name where they're at right, because a lot of times.
09:33
That conversation around boundaries will naturally unfold as they start to get very clear on what it is that they're experiencing, and then you can introduce this idea of what even are boundaries, because most people are I mean, they know boundaries, but a lot of people the misnomer around them is that it's you know pushing people away, and instead you open this dialogue around.
09:56
Boundaries are really just naming for yourself what works for you versus what doesn't, and so it's actually for the benefit of the relationship where we might be struggling to set those boundaries, it's. It's the way to have that healthy relationship is to go ahead and set those boundaries and yes, I'm not going to, you know, sugarcoat it. There'll be times when you set boundaries with people and those people fall off. They say I'm done, I don't want to be in this relationship, and that is absolutely very hard. But the key to remember is that they were benefiting from the lack of your boundaries in the first place, and were you really in an authentic relationship with them? If you had to overgive, overfunction, whatever the thing may be, were you really being in an authentic relationship? Was that healthy for you? And maybe, maybe, just maybe, setting those boundaries allows you to start differentiating and discerning who you can create healthy relationships with versus the ones that may not be long-term healthy for you.
10:55 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
So that's a great kind of segue for some people who maybe never had boundaries demonstrated right. So we're talking about parenting and the challenge that we have with children is we learn from our parents what was role modeled for us, and so if you're growing up in a family that didn't have boundaries, you didn't understand what boundaries are. How can you kindly learn to set your own? And I think most people still want to have a relationship with their family members, albeit perhaps a healthier one. How do you start those conversations, one with the client, and how do you help coach them in that conversation with their family?
11:40 - Kamini Woods (Host)
The very first thing that I'll start in terms of the conversation with my client is for them to just get clear on you know what are their needs and how are they feeling in certain situations?
11:51
right, because the feelings themselves are data packets. They're giving my client information on what values might be might not be being met or what needs might not be being met. Right? So it's really it's not about the person that they're needing to set a boundary with at all in the beginning, it's about them. You know what is it that you need, what is it that you value? And then once they're able to name that, they're able to actually start that conversation and dialogue around where, who in their life might that not be being respected from or by right? And so from that place, we then start dialoguing and conversing around.
12:28
Well, what might a boundary look like? What might the boundary be that you would need? And then we start creating space for how would I potentially to communicate to that person I want to just reiterate again, because you said it in the beginning too is like it's difficult. It's also with my client. We talk a lot around.
12:46
There'll be pushback, right?
12:48
Because, again, if we haven't ever had boundaries, it's never been modeled.
12:51
We're going to be wonky and wobbly when we're trying to do it at first, and it's to give yourself some grace as you're doing that, but then it's also to recognize that the person that we're communicating to this is new for them too.
13:03
So there's going to be that, that discomfort on both ends. And so just really, I really work with people on talking through that, because what will happen most often is people will get up the courage to to start setting that boundary and they go, start having that conversation and the person that they're talking to starts negatively responding pretty quickly, and then my client will then like get scared and shudder and stop and it's like never mind, never mind, right, and then we run away from setting the boundary. So it's important in my life, in my work, to really be open and make that, have that conversation around what that's going to look like and what it might, what might that experience feel like, and then also have ways to handle that and work through that Right. So learning that we might have to sit in the discomfort of somebody's response and that also it's relearning that that's not ours to manage. Yeah, ours is to manage how we're experiencing the conversation.
14:00 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
When they come in and start with the conversation, have they like, maybe role modeled or practice that conversation? Do they start with maybe like the outcome first, like having that outcome in mind, like, how do you, how do you approach that? Do you just call someone and say, hey, we need to have a boundary conversation? I don't know how to do that, right.
14:23 - Kamini Woods (Host)
No, I mean right it's. It's not very easy to just sort of come up with it and say we need to, we need to talk about boundaries. I mean, I can just had a conversation with a client just the other day around you know in-laws. In-laws are a great place where we need to set boundaries oftentimes. And this particular client is really struggling because you know he wants to feel like a good son-in-law, right, and so part of our conversation has been well, let's define what good son-in-law is first that's a good one is part of you know the stories that we tell ourselves is, and, as a people pleaser, this is part of my story too, is I would.
15:04
it meant certain things, but part of that story is well, maybe that's not true. Maybe being a good son-in-law in this particular case isn't bending over backwards and doing everything that my in-laws ask of me, but maybe my boundary is I can give you some advice on certain things, but I'm not going to do it for you as an example. And so once that in our conversation that became clear for him, I mean he did ask well then, how do I do this, like, what do I do? What do I say? And so really it's. We know that people are going to ask things of us, right, and so it's allowing the conversation to happen, naturally. But the next time that they ask, instead of jumping up and over-functioning and just doing the thing that they're asking, being able to communicate well, I'm able to do this, but not this, right. So he actually was able to say in conversation when they, when they asked something of him I'm not able to come to take care of those items, but I can offer you X, y, z as advice, and they, you know, at first the in-laws were very much like what do you mean? I don't know what this is.
16:05
I usually you come and help and in that moment it's really about knowing that you can. You can let them speak. We don't have to shut them down or run away. It's, I hear, I hear you know the disappointment that I'm not able to come and take care of those things. Unfortunately, I don't have the ability, my schedule doesn't allow it. But again, here are the things that I can offer in terms of advice. So we practice that and we, we actually role played it, it in our session, so it built some confidence that he was able to hold that space when having that conversation. But I've been working with this client for a little bit of time, and that's been coming up. A lot, though, is because he himself admits I'm a people pleaser, so in most of his relationships there's the over giving and over functioning, and so he's noticing that he has to do this multiple times in multiple ways. And again, it's not we need to have boundaries. It's in conversation, being able to naturally start saying well, this works for me, this doesn't.
17:05 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
It's interesting because we work with a lot of engineers and so my engineers have no problem. If they get to a point they're like I need boundaries, these are boundaries, so they they would use these words, but I also. You had another word. You said earlier that the emotion is a data packet, and I'm going to borrow that. That, for my crowd, is kind of gold, because they don't consider emotions quantifiable, right Like it's all qualitative.
17:38 - Kamini Woods (Host)
Right.
17:40 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
You know, even I was writing my dissertation and I kept telling my professor I wanted it to be quant not qual, because that's the crowd I'm in. And he really pushed back and whatever. That's the crowd I'm in and he really pushed back and whatever. But then, after I defended and all my engineering colleagues attended, he's like you work in a very engineering world. Yes, I do.
18:02 - Kamini Woods (Host)
Yes, that is my reality.
18:06 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
So it's interesting to hear other people's stories and perspectives of how they're getting there and they're not comfortable to say boundaries, cause I think our people are like, oh, you said I need a boundary, like, or here's this brick wall, right, right.
18:23 - Kamini Woods (Host)
And it's all of the sudden, yes, and that can be very disconcerting for people, though, right, when, all of a sudden, we've got this wall. I will often say that boundaries are more um a fence, like if we could just utilize them more as a fence, not a wall, right? So if we have porous boundaries, they're more like a suggestion, not really a boundary right. They're like a house of cards that the wind blows, it's gone. No-transcript. This is what will work for me and this is what will work for both of us together. Right, when we do that and we can lead from that place, it doesn't feel so abrupt, but we are again empathetic. Leadership, I believe, is where it's at in terms of building leadership, when we can come from that place, because then we're coming from a place of I understand and hear what you're saying, but in terms of boundaries, this is what works for me, and let's work together to figure this out. We actually will see more success that way.
19:46 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
So it's interesting that you say fences, because we have an entire week-long visualization exercise on fences and different types of fences, like your front yard and your backyard and the gate. Everyone has to take out the garbage sometimes, yes, and how, and people like I have visitors. They come to my house and you know what they do. They leave. Thank you, I am so grateful for the time that you spent here, but it is also time to go and I will see you next time, and so understanding that there, that that can be a healthy boundary, yes, is really useful. So I love that you're using the fence as well.
20:32 - Kamini Woods (Host)
It makes me feel included I love that you use the gate too, because I use that in my metaphor where, in terms of boundaries, like you get to open and close said gate right, yes, people in. But you can also say, okay, it's time for you to gonna close the. Gonna close the gate how many.
20:50 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
I haven't really heard anyone else use these metaphors, so I'm so happy to share that with you and hear that from you.
20:56 - Kamini Woods (Host)
That's amazing I love that synergy.
20:59 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
I love it. It's fantastic. Okay, so the gentleman that we were talking about, if we can kind of follow, has he also looked to the people around him to support him in his boundary setting? How does?
21:15 - Kamini Woods (Host)
that work. I love that you brought that up, because it is so true that when we're embarking on something like boundary setting, if we try to do it in a silo or in secret, it's very difficult. It's not that it can't be done, but it's very difficult. So it's not that it can't be done, but it's very difficult. So I always encourage people to, yes, reach out to your support system, reach out to the people that you actually trust and have conversation with them. Open conversation of this is something I'm working on. So, in the case of, in his case, what we did was we we actually had, we talked about how can he bring his, his spouse, into the conversation with him. You know, this is what I'm working on.
21:54
Well, first of all, it's this is what I'm noticing about me. I'm noticing that I'm not I'm lacking certain boundaries and it's putting me in a position of actually overgiving and it's actually creating some resentment, right. So, really just helping aim it and then saying this is what I'm going to be focusing on, working on, and what I really love is support around that, because, especially when we have our loved ones or our support network and they see us showing up differently, it can be very disconcerting for them. So having that openness, first of all, is just, it's healthy, but also then they can support, right. So then she can say, oh, I hear what he's doing.
22:28
Especially when it's in-laws this involves her parents, right. So having her support is really important in this process, because if she didn't know that that's what he was doing, and then he's starting to set these boundaries and they have a big reaction to it, then she's going to potentially get really upset. What are you doing? What's happening? So it is important, I think, to be able to bring in those support network and also become your accountability partners, right? Because if you have been struggling to set boundaries, you might scare yourself off when somebody pushes back. So having somebody be kind of your personal accountability partner is actually also very helpful.
23:06 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
Are you familiar with the three scales that are used to measure burnout according to the World Health Organization?
23:16
I am not familiar with the three scales, so it's isolation, inadequacy and cynicism, and there's a few questions along each scale and you get a score. And I think it's interesting to understand how people are reaching out to their partners and their friends to create a support structure, as they're setting boundaries specifically because of this isolation scale. Specifically because of this isolation scale, how do we set boundaries in a healthy way that's communicating, bringing in our support network and creating a strong nucleus so that we can manage the boundaries or get support for the boundaries, especially at the beginning?
24:13 - Kamini Woods (Host)
So the question that you're asking is how do we bring them in? Yeah, I think from my perspective. Well, first of all, isolation. I mean that makes total sense, that that would be a huge part of, or one of the three main parts of, burnout, because I do think that when we are isolated and we feel alone, because we're social beings, that would absolutely contribute. So, when we're bringing in our support network or our spouse, I truly believe that it starts with bringing them in, in a way of letting them know how we are experiencing things, what are we experiencing and what are we feeling. It's never about placing blame on anybody, but it is about saying this is what I'm noticing about myself and this is what I'm feeling.
24:58
And then we go into a place of this is what I'm also needing, right? So, as we're introducing them to the idea of a boundary, it's like I'll take myself as an example, with my people pleasing. You know, if one of the things that I would say is, like I'm noticing that I am overgiving and I'm over functioning with individuals, I'm not able to say no, what I'm needing to do is find ways to build my confidence around saying no and knowing that that's okay. I'm looking for support around, you know, I'm looking for support when I do say no to somebody, just, you know, vocal support, but also reminding me that it's okay to do that, because if I know like for me personally, I know that I will feel guilty afterwards.
25:46
So, my support system I'm asking them to just be there to say I'm really proud of you or I really acknowledge that you said no today and that's okay, right?
25:55
Because that's the request that I'm making in my support system.
25:59
So I'm being very specific with them of saying this is what I'm experiencing, this is what I'm feeling, this is what I'm needing, and I'm going to be trying to set a boundary, that what I need from you is X that allows them to take part in our journey, but also their understanding where it's coming from, instead of just simply going up to somebody and saying I'm going to start saying no, you know, they don't really know what that means, but now they have context, and it's not about justification or explanation, it's just to give our support network some context of what it is that we're working on, so they actually can authentically show, show up, because then it gives them an opportunity to say well, I don't agree with that and I'm not sure I can support you with that, which is also part of it right, because if our support system can't, we would want to know that at the get-go, so then we could either figure out who else we might need to bring in to the fold to help support us.
26:45
But it also opens up dialogue with that person to say, oh, that's interesting, tell me more about that, because obviously there's something maybe that we need to converse with from that, with that person as well you bring up a thought for me.
26:59 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
We used to, um, we interviewed a, a business consultant, and it was for for the absolute newbies. Hey, I have an idea. And the newbies would be new entrepreneurs or want to be developing ideas. They would reach out to their friends and the consultant had said don't ask your friends, because you're basically asking for permission. And I often think about that Are you asking for advice or are you asking for permission? And I wonder how that plays into some of the boundary setting when you're asking for support and maybe you're not getting it. Or are you asking in the wrong way? Or are you get right Because you just said well, they may not agree, but what if what you're proposing is not healthy for you? I mean, like, like, there's a, I think there's a navigation, I don't know. I'm asking.
28:03 - Kamini Woods (Host)
That's such a great point because I think that that what that calls into play is a couple things, and I think that's such a great point of am I asking for permission? If I reach out to my support system, is it from a place of asking is this okay? That's where your inner work comes in, which is that's why I say it's so important to really name for yourself what are you experiencing and what is it that you need, because if you're naming those things when you're talking to your support system, you're very clear on what it is that you're needing. So, instead of it being I'm asking for permission to set this boundary, you've actually done the work to say this is what I need Now. On that note, though, if they're pushing back, what that does is, like I mentioned, it offers an opportunity to have more conversation, because what if that support person is noticing something that you haven't recognized? So it allows for healthy dialogue.
28:55
Tell me more. Let me get curious about why you're pushing back. Not, oh, I shouldn't do it, or oh, let me just go find somebody else it's converse with and get curious with. Tell me more about that. Why are we? Because now we're getting into the investigative portion of it where it's like okay, I'm hearing you, let me understand. And then again it comes back to agency and autonomy. Now that I have that information, what do I choose for myself?
29:20 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
How do you encourage a person who's new on this journey to choose curiosity over judgment or defensiveness? Because it's a great it's such a great word. Yes and yes. Academic in me says be curious, be curious. But I will also say, the little girl in me from time to time is like no, thank you. Right, like I, like, I can, I'm human, I also. I say practice all these things, but I am not perfect. Yes, we don't, absolutely. So I mean.
29:57 - Kamini Woods (Host)
I, you know, overachiever right here, who judgment was like the go-to? My answer to that is self-compassion, right. How do we practice curiosity over judgment? We lean into this idea of kindness over judgment. You know, when something doesn't go the way that we want it to, instead of going into this place of self-judgment and self-criticism, we employ this idea of huh, that didn't go the way that I wanted. What happened here? What can I learn from this? What can I take away from this? Those are curious questions, instead of sitting in oh there's something wrong with me because I messed that up right.
30:32
So the way through and how we shift into curiosity is to lean into kindness. Lean into what would we tell a small child if they were in this situation? What would we say to them? Would we judge them or would we offer some kindness and saying, well, that was tough, right. It's never about self-compassion, isn't about denying what happened. It's to actually say, well, this is a tough situation or that did not go the way that I wanted it to. What can we take away from it?
30:59
I mean, as a parent, I know that that's something that I have really employed with my kids is like okay, so you didn't. You know that that class didn't go the way, that exam didn't go the way that you wanted, would I sit there and criticize them? You're like, what is wrong with you? No, instead I say to them okay, like, let's talk about that. What happened what? What did we learn what? What could we maybe do different next time? Those are curious questions. So the way that we do that is to offer ourselves that same kindness that we would a loved one or our child or a friend. Just turn that and towards self it's not, it's.
31:36 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
It's a nice way I'm, I'm listening and I'm thinking and applying some of your stories as I go through different situations and and it's interesting my partner always says but why do you think that way, like when he's, when, when we're at a different, different Right, and he says but why do you think that way? And it's, it's such an opener for a healthy conversation that I have to learn to practice myself.
32:09 - Kamini Woods (Host)
Curious question, right? Tell me more about your thought.
32:18 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
Yes, and it's a way too of like not being judgmental, like I'm not on the defense when he says it like that, and so I can. Sometimes I can't explain, but I have the space he gives me the space to explain.
32:28 - Kamini Woods (Host)
Yeah, it's so funny. I love that question that he asks. I've done a spinoff of that with my kids, which is tell me more about that choice. You know, like when they've done something that maybe I wouldn't have agreed, like I wouldn't have done it that way, it's instead of like why did you make? Like, why did you say X, y, z to your sister. It's like tell me more about that, the choice of that comment.
32:51 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
You know, tell me more about that comment. I think I say how did that work out for you? Yes, that's a good one too, I think I could probably say it in a kinder way from time to time, because there might be some judgment in my voice, even if the words are nicer. Maybe it's a tone, right it's maybe just maybe tone does play a play a role in their parenting successes. Parenting is also a journey of self-growth absolutely absolutely.
33:25
So we earlier we talked about compassion and compassion for self, and I'm wondering, as a people pleaser, it feels like we also are always talking about the compassion for the people around us, which is why we feel like we don't want to set those boundaries. How do we juggle compassion for self with compassion for others and understand, like explaining, that when I care for myself, I can help you more?
34:05
Compassion for self is actually compassion for others. How do we help people through that kind of conversation and sitting with the discomfort as they grow into it?
34:19 - Kamini Woods (Host)
Yeah, you know, I think oftentimes people think that compassion for self is actually selfish, right, and so part of it is working on the beliefs around that and that recognizing that compassion for self is not selfish, it's selfful, and when we fill ourselves, we have something to then offer to others right, because we're not coming from an empty cup, so to speak. And the other part of it is that with, especially as a people pleaser, there is a distinction between having compassion for somebody versus feeling responsible for their feelings, right, so I can have compassion for the fact that they might be disappointed, but I'm not ultimately responsible for the disappointment. Okay, so that's part of it too, especially in context of boundary setting, because I think what happens is we take on the responsibility for how that person is responding to the boundary, and so the work around that we have to engage in is I'm setting this boundary and I'm going to sit in the whatever discomfort I might feel if that person is responding in a negative way or how I perceive it to be negative, and recognize that that's theirs to work through, not mine, and it's actually doing a disservice to them trying to fix that for them, because really that's theirs to understand what's happening for them just as much as it's ours to do the work to figure out what boundaries we need and why we need them. And so part of the work and what I do with clients is to talk about that discomfort and to recognize, like to make space for the fact that you will have to sit in discomfort. It'll be inevitable that you will set a boundary with somebody.
36:07
They will have a negative reaction to it and just learning to sit with that, knowing that it's not your responsibility to fix that.
36:13
You know, if we try, if we set the boundary and we're really obnoxious about it and the way that we communicate it, there's responsibility in that right. Yes, we own that. But if we're being loving and kind and we're just being really respectful and saying you know this doesn't work for me, but this would, and somebody has a negative response that we have to allow them to have that and yes, it means we might have to sit with them, sit in that discomfort of knowing that they're uncomfortable and that compassion to self says I'm going to do my work to work through this and I'm going to let them do what they need to to work through it and hopefully they can work through whatever their reaction is, and we can find a common ground. But, like I said earlier, you may come up against some people who aren't willing to do that, and that's an invitation for you to take a hard look at. Was that a relationship that was, is or was healthy for me in the first place?
37:04 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
So we said grace and space and I told you one time that I had a little flip on the phrase. We had a lady at the office who didn't deliver and really took advantage of boundaries, right. And so you know, the first time you want to say grace and space, right, like I want to give them a little bit of forgiveness and give everybody a little bit of time to heal, want to give them a little bit of forgiveness and give them some everybody a little bit of time to heal. But after it happened quite a few times, I said you know, I'm going to give myself the grace of giving her space. And we were done. We, we didn't, we, we didn't allow our team to be overused anymore by that individual. But, um, I think it's really important to understand that grace and space is not a one direction.
37:53 - Kamini Woods (Host)
Yep.
37:54 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
And I'm just. I'm just wondering if you've ever seen how people navigate space and do they come back together after a time? Can people heal through some of those rifts?
38:10 - Kamini Woods (Host)
Yeah, I have seen both ends of it. I have seen some who you know I love how you said that, grace and then give her space. I've seen some individuals who take that space and then they can do their own whatever healing or self-work that they need to to then come back together and really have an honest, healthy conversation. I've seen the other side of it, too, where we give that person space and we recognize the dynamics that we were in were toxic or unhealthy, and the grace that we give ourselves is the ability to say I'm okay, moving on.
38:48
And there might be grief involved in letting go of whatever relationship that was, and that's, you know, we process. It's important to process through that, that sense of loss of whatever dynamic that was, but it's also recognizing that you then have made a real generative decision for yourself. Instead of just staying in something that wasn't working, you've created space to say this doesn't work anymore. I think when I've seen people come back together, it's because both people are willing to do whatever self-reflection that they need to and then have that really healthy conversation about what works for each of them and what needs are being met and not being met, or what values are being met and not met right, and so when you're able to do that, you can come back together, but, and so sometimes that space is necessary so that both people can do the reflection that they need to.
39:43 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
Yes, I think the space is helpful. And then to your point right, like how are you self-full instead of selfish, and how do you navigate some of those, because those can be rocky waters? Yes, and I think people go through times of life right, like sometimes they just need that space and then the relationship isn't bad, but maybe they're just overwhelmed elsewhere and you're catching the waves yes, that's it such a great point.
40:15 - Kamini Woods (Host)
I mean, I've actually seen this in clients where they they needed the space because they were overwhelmed and also potentially burnt out and they needed to just refuel and refill and then they were able to come back and you know, it wasn't really the person it was, you know, just the fact that they right and that they needed to do, they needed, they needed to set boundaries for themselves more than anything. It wasn't even with somebody else, it was self boundaries.
40:40 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
Yeah, and, and that's real, john Maxwell always says don't let the situation overcome the person, and I I like that quote as long as everybody involved is mentally healthy and there's not drugs or abuse or anything. But I also think there's a time where you have to say here's your space and here's my space. So you know, like I don't think it's an apply it to 100 percent situation.
41:07 - Kamini Woods (Host)
Right, exactly, I think. I think when we get into that place of saying this is like the rule for everything, we're not leaving space for the fact that not everything, things can be similar, but they're not going to be the same, right, right.
41:18 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
So, yeah, I like the thought, but then I'm also like, okay, but I also am here for you when that doesn't work. Exactly, exactly, yeah. So, Kamini, what from the seven, eight years that you have been practicing this, what's kind of like the first go-to nugget that you like to recommend? So the people who are at home listening today, they're like, hey, I think I could do a little bit better with boundary setting. What's the first thing that you would recommend for them to do?
41:52 - Kamini Woods (Host)
Get started. Yes, absolutely. I think it's a self-evaluation of you know what, what matters to me, right? So it's a values evaluation. Like where, where are my core values? What is it that are, are the things in life that are most meaningful to me? That's number one. And then number two is a needs evaluation what is it that I need?
42:12
And looking at different aspects, right, like, what do I need in context of work? What do I need in context of certain relationships? What do I need in context of my own health and wellness? What if you look at the different domains of life and you really get clear on the needs in each of those sections? Because then you can step back into observer mode and be like and ask the question okay, now that I'm very clear on what my values and what my needs are in each of these sections, what's working and what's not working, and what boundaries like what boundaries might I need to set in place so that those values and needs can be met. And again, this isn't coming from a selfish mindset. This is a very selfful mindset Because if I, if we go back to what we said before, if I'm selfful and I'm filled up, then I know that when I'm in relationship with others, I have something to give. So the very first place, though, is that self-work, is that understanding of self, what is it that I value and what is it that I need, and from there everything kind of evolves.
43:06 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
So start with values and then move to needs. Okay, that's a great starting place. So, Kamini, if somebody wants to reach out and learn more about the work that you do, and maybe read, what can they do to get ahold of you? What can they do to learn more about what you're working?
43:26 - Kamini Woods (Host)
on. So my website is kaminiwood.com and, as a matter of fact, there's a blog on there that I've talked a lot about boundaries, so if they're interested in learning more about, it just hop over to the blog. And then, of course, I'm on Instagram and Facebook with the handle it's @AuthenticMe, and I'm also on LinkedIn with Comedy.
43:43 - Dr. Angela J. Buckley (Host)
Wood, perfect Well. Thank you so much for sharing your insights, sharing the stories of your clients and also your children. So growing is such a such a adventure. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. I will make sure that everything goes into the show notes so that they can find those links, and I look forward to talking to you again and seeing you on the interweb. You've just listened to another episode of Overcome to Become. Thank you for joining me, angela Buckley, your host, as we explored actions and mindsets to overcome the overwhelm and beat burnout. Did you know that when you learn to lead yourself, you can effectively learn to lead others? You can apply these skills in your home, at work and in the community. If you'd like to learn more, join us in the Strength in Nature Learning Academy. We are currently featuring the Overcome the Overwhelm course with a 20% off coupon code OTB2024. That's valid until the end of 2024. You can join me in my community at www.strengthennature.com and on Instagram at creatively efficient. Thanks for listening. I look forward to hearing from you soon.
